Episode 11: Casey Anthony

We all know the story.... we all know the lies...

We have very strong feelings on this one, so scuse all the swearing! LOL.

We cover the documentaries "American Murder Mystery" and "Where The Truth Lies". 

Joins us and swear along....

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Hey, Deadly Divas and dudes.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Are you ready for this one, Tia? I am never ready for this, but I'm always ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

This might be our longest episode ever. I've never had so many notes. She's got a novel of notes over here. There's a lot. Usually you're the one with 11 pages. And I've got 12.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Well, my next episode on Sherry Papini is 16 pages. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

And that's funny you should mention that because we're recording both of those today. And like I said at the end of the bonus episode, it's two stories about two liars. And not just people who lie, but people who believe and stand by their own massive whopping lies. Do you call them whoppers? We call them whoppers. I know, but I like that, and I'm gonna say. Also, the rhining slang, just so you know, the London rhyming slang for lies is pork pies. Pork pies? So if somebody says to you, hey, you're s you're telling me pork is. It means you're telling me lies. Pork pies is lies. Okay, noted. Yeah, we'll just throw in a little rhyming slang every now and then. It's fun, fun times. So yeah, we are actually recording two episodes about two very different cases, but both are just women who just can't seem to stop lying.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

No matter the cost. For no particular reason.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

And no matter how many people they are Unfortunately, this particular liar story involves the death of a sweet, innocent, two-year-old girl. This is the story of Casey Anthony and Kaylee Anthony. And we are taking the first half of this, I say half, actually the majority, let's say 75%, of this episode, I'm taking from um an American murder mystery on HBO. These are where I'm getting these particular facts and timeline of events. All right, so as we usually try and do our cases on a particular documentary, this one is from American Murder Mystery. And later on, we are also going to discuss the Where the Truth Lies peacock special that was done in 2022 that has updates and new information. So we'll touch upon that later too. I wish you could see Tina's eyes roll every sentence. She's like, roly roly. Because Casey Anthony sucks. Yeah. Yeah, let's just get that out of the way at the beginning here. Um, as everybody knows, she was found innocent in a court of law. And as we say in our disclaimer, everybody is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and she was not proven guilty in a court of law. However, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and both Tina and I are of the opinion that Casey Anthony is a lying piece of shit. And she did it. Right. And she liked it. So bear that in mind while listening to this episode, that these are our opinions and we're entitled to them, and we know that she was found innocent. But the justice system does not always work. So let's get into it. On July 15th, 2008, at 8.44 p.m., Cindy Anthony, who's Casey's mom, places a 911 call to the police asking them to arrest her 22-year-old daughter, Casey Anthony, for stealing her car. But then she goes on to say that actually she just got the car back from the impound and she just needs an officer to come to her house to speak with her. So the car was stolen, but now she has it back. Police go to the house where George, Cindy, Casey, and Kaylee live. So just up front here for those that don't know, Kaylee is the two-year-old, Casey is her mother, the 22-year-old, and Cindy and George are Casey's parents and Kaylee's grandparents. And that's why Cindy tells the police that this is the first time that she has seen Casey in weeks. The police turn up to find Cindy and Casey arguing. And Cindy tells the police that her granddaughter, Kaylee, has been missing for a month. And police start to realize that the issue isn't a stolen car. When Casey became pregnant at 19, Cindy was a nurse and George was a police officer, and she would not tell them who the father was. Casey says she dropped off her daughter at the nanny a month ago, but the nanny now refuses to return her daughter. The police are shocked by this bizarre story and say, Well, why has nobody called this in? Right. Casey claims she dropped Kaylee off on June 16th to a nanny to go to work as an event planner at Universal Studios. But when she returned, nobody was home. The nanny's phone number was out of service. So she claimed to look around places where they usually went, like the park and the stores, but she couldn't locate her and she was too ashamed to go home and tell her parents that she didn't know where her daughter was. So she went to stay with a boyfriend instead.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I totally believe that.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah. She says she didn't call the police because she was worried that the nanny would hurt Kaylee if she did. This nanny that she apparently had used for two years, trusted, didn't know where she was. She didn't want to call the police because the nanny might hurt her daughter. It's super bizarre already, and we're like one page in. All right. She said the nanny's name was Zanaida Gonzalez, but goes by Zanny the nanny. She gives a description and she claims that Zanny has been watching Kaylee for a couple of years now. So the police have her take them to the nanny's apartment, but nobody's home, and actually the apartment appears to be vacant. So the police go on to search all night with Casey and then drop her back home in the morning. They decide to take to the Media ASAP for help in locating Kaylee and still trying to locate the nanny. They learn that the apartment that Casey pointed out has been emptied for months, and there has never been a tenant in their apartment building by that name ever. Next they go to Universal Studios and they learn that Casey hasn't worked there for more than two years. And neither of the co-workers that Casey claimed she had told about Kaylee being missing have worked there for two years either. So at this point, the police realize that Casey has lied about several details. So they take her to Universal Studios just to see what she does. They're trying to catch her in her lie. She tries to lie her way past security, who have no details of her ever working there. But eventually they let her in because the police say, hey, could we just go in? They want to see what happens. She walks through the hallways waving at people who have no idea who she is. The police are following her all the time knowing that she doesn't work there, but noticing how she's just acting like normal. And then eventually she hits a dead end and there's nowhere else to go and she has to admit to police. She just turns around and says, Actually, I don't work here. And they say, Yeah, we know. They take her back to the station for an interview, hoping that now that they've caught her in this lie, she'll finally tell the truth. But she sticks to all of her lies and stories. They tell her they even checked a video footage of the supposed nanny's apartment from the day that she dropped off Kaylee and she's not on it at all. One reason she gives for lying is she was afraid of her mother's reaction. And the police have to question why is she more afraid of her mother's reaction than where her child is? Mm-hmm. She also did not seem concerned and had absolutely no sense of urgency in locating her missing two-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Right. She just seemed annoyed at the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

So as a mother, I can remember losing my kids, uh obviously as a bad mother. You lose sight of your kid for five seconds in the grocery store and you're in full-on panic, Mother. Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Panic.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Right? And she's trying to tell them, oh yeah, my kid's been missing for 31 days, but I was just too frightened that my mom would be angry with me. So I just, you know, went on living my life and didn't report it. Totally normal. Totally. They get the impression as she doesn't seem at all concerned about where Kaylee is, that she must know where she is and that the kid must be safe, because that's what you would think, right? Is that a parent that's not concerned about where their child is must know that their child is safe. So based on her saying that she was scared of her mom, Cindy, they ask her, Are you keeping Kaylee away from Cindy on purpose for a reason? But she says no. She still insists that she left Kaylee with a nanny. And she absolutely won't budge, so they arrest her and charge her with child neglect, hoping that will force her to tell the truth. Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, it's all kind of other fucked up things too, like ignorance and evil? Evil and not being motherly or like I don't know. There's no words. They let her call her mom Cindy, and she yells at her mom. They're pinning this on me. Which of course is her biggest concern right now. Not the fact that her two-year-old daughter is possibly in danger, just that they're pinning stuff on her. Cindy's like, Could you just tell the cops the truth, please? Because everybody at this point knows she's lying. She's been proved to be lying. So her mom is like, just tell the cops the truth. And her reaction to that is, Well, I don't want to talk to you anymore. So the phone is passed to somebody else in the family. They don't specify who, but somebody else in the family. And that person says to her, Why are you not upset? Your child is missing. Why are you not panicking about this? To which she replies, Well, I'm sorry, I can't be crying every two minutes. So now she asks for her boyfriend's phone number, Tony Lazaro. But the police are recording all of these phone calls and so on. Of course, they're trying to get more information because they are baffled. And they're like, uh-huh. We have a name, Tony Lazaro. Let's go look for this dude. Now, poor T I do feel bad for Tony and his roommates that come into this. But anyway. Tony says he had no idea that Kaylee was missing. Casey had never mentioned it. And they also interview Tony's roommate, Clint. I do believe that Clint is a bit of an attention seeker because he is in this and the other documentary, and he had a lot to say, considering you're just the roommate of the boyfriend. Some of what he said I felt was relevant in the first documentary. They kind of bamboozle him in the second documentary, but I'll get to that. Honestly, I just don't think he was too bright.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

And the stuff they say to him in the second documentary, he's like, oh my god, I never thought of it like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Never thought of it like that. Well, she must be innocent. Give me a fucking break.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah. Whereas if you analyze what they said to him, it's all a twist of words. I mean, anyway, we'll get back to that. This is why I wanted to do the later documentary as well. Because obviously there's a bunch of people with a completely different look on it, looking back now. But back to Tony. He had no idea Kaylee was missing. Casey never mentioned it. Tony and his roommate Clint say she used to bring Kaylee over all the time. They all loved her. She was a great, happy kid. And put a pin in that because she was very confident, turned up at the house going, Hey, what's up, dudes? And um I just want to put a pin in there because later Casey tries to say that Kaylee was being abused as well. And an abused two-year-old does not have that kind of confident, friendly with strangers type attitude. So she would take Kaylee over there. They all loved her. They said Casey was actually a very loving mother. She took Casey with her, she took Kaylee with her everywhere she went. She brought her over at least three times a week. And then suddenly she just stopped bringing her over, but never mentioned where she was. She just kept saying, Oh, she's with the nanny, or oh, she's with the parents. But it was very bizarre to them how Kaylee was always with her and then never with her. Then police, on further investigation, realized that Cindy didn't just call 911 the first time. She had actually called it three times. After the initial call, when she said that the car was stolen, she called back to say, my granddaughter has been missing for a month. And then she also called to say, I just got my car back from the impounds that Casey had stolen, and it smells like there has been a dead body in it. Now, police weren't dispatched or notified of the subsequent calls because obviously they've already been dispatched on the first call. So I guess as a 911 operator, if somebody's already on the way, you're not like going to keep calling in 911 race. But when they go back and look, they're like, this is bizarre. She first calls and says my car is stolen. Then she calls and says my granddaughter's been missing. And then she calls and says, I have the car back, but it sounds like there's been a dead body in it. Uh and side note there, my husband said, Well, I wouldn't know what a dead body smells like. Cindy was a nurse, you remember? A nurse. And George was an ex-police officer. So it's highly likely that they would both be more likely to know that smell than your average jail.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Absolutely. And obviously, I don't know what one smells like either, but you always hear like the odor is unmistakable.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah. So as police had already been dispatched, there was no actual notes of these other 911 calls. They just came across the recordings of them. So the police go immediately to the car and impound it for forensics. And it does smell to them like decomposition, which is confirmed by a cadaver dog who goes directly to the trunk as the root of the smell. And although the trunk has obviously been cleaned, they can see a stain on the carpet in the trunk area about the size of a two-year-old. So they send the carpet out for testing. And they also find human hairs that they also send out for testing. Again, coming back to that. Takes a while to get tests. They decided to question George and Cindy about the car, and they were told that Casey had abandoned it when it ran out of gas and they had to pick it up from an impound lot. When they ask Cindy again about the smell, she says, Ugh actually, I did find a bag of garbage that was left in the trunk, and that's what I could smell. It had an old rotting pizza with maggots in it in the trunk. Sebastian, why did you first report it as smelling like a dead body? She says that sh once she realized Kaylee was missing, she knew she needed to get the police there ASAP, so she thought saying that it smelt like a dead body would help speed up that process.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

That sounds like a lie to me, but go on.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

They believe, as do I, that she was protecting her daughter. So her gut initial reaction was, it smells like a dead body, because she's a nurse and she knows what they smell like. And then she realizes that that does not look good for her family and her daughter. And so she's like, Well, you know what? It could have been the rubbish left in the trunk. So now police believe she's torn between protecting her daughter and finding her granddaughter. When they question her about her two different descriptions of the smell, she replies, Are you looking for a live Kaylee or a dead Kaylee?

SPEAKER_04 16:04

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

I mean, what a thing for a grandmother. I was gonna say to have to say, but I can't even imagine saying that. Like if it was my grandchild, I'd be in tears before I could say, Are you looking for a dead Kaylee? Right. I'd be losing it.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

She knew. Cindy knew that her granddaughter was deceased. You can't convince me otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, they ask Cindy next, what do you think happened? And all she says is, I just don't know. So George asks to speak to the police alone. Because as a former police officer, he knows how this looks. Cindy and George visit Casey in jail. And when they first ask her on the first visit, how are you doing? She answers, I look like hell.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Nobody cares what you look like.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

You shouldn't care what you look like. Like what the fuck, lady? Your first question should have been, have they found Kaylee yet? Right. Instead of, oh, I need a hair right now. Where's my daughter? Is there any news? I look like hell.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Good. I'm giving myself a headache today from the amount of time I've rolled my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

You need to be in hell. Yeah. So despite what they have said to the police about their doubts, they tell Casey that she has their full support. Cindy says to Casey that someone was saying Kaylee is dead. Casey rolls her eyes and says, surprise, surprise. Like, what? What? Yeah. If somebody said to me, I think your child might be dead, you'd have to pick me up off the floor. Right. Not roll my eyes and say, surprise, surprise.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

This is again Casey showing her annoyance how bothered she is by this whole process and how inconveniencing it is for her.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

She's more concerned about getting out of jail and brushing her hair. Right. Yeah. Oh man. Her parents ask her if she can give them anything to go on at all. But Casey is just all me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. You don't understand how I feel. I've been in here a month. Poor Casey. The eternal victim. She just seems mad at the world and how her life has been taken from her. Um what? So police are still hunting for for Zanny the nanny. And they find a person whose name is actually Zaneda Fernandez Gonzalez. She's older than Casey said, and she has no idea who Casey or Kaylee were. She's never babysat them. She has never met them, and they were able to verify all of her answers. Now police are just absolutely sure that Casey killed her daughter. So Casey decides she needs a lawyer, and she is recommended by somebody in jail to hire Jose Byers. So she hires him. In the meantime, George and Cindy start a mega search for Kaylee. There are posters, there are ground searches, there are dogs, there are divers. And that is how normal people react when a small child is missing.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

This is how strangers react when a small child is missing, but her mother couldn't be bothered.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Well, because she's been in jail. So a lot of info starts coming out because Florida allows public access to records before the trial, which is weird to me because I get that you want to allow public access after. But the reason they had such a hard time finding a jury for this is because Florida has this law that they release everything as soon as it's found, because the public has a right to know. So they start releasing all of these records, the 911 calls, everything, and Casey becomes the most hated woman in America, and the public wants justice. Now, once Jose Byers has been hired, Casey makes bond, and that absolutely infuriates the public. They start protesting outside the Antony's house, yelling at the house. And this is one instance where I think her parents act bizarrely. Because, again, if my kid or my granddaughter was missing, that's all I would focus on. And they're outside the house, physically fighting with these people, saying, You're wrong, go away, leave me alone. Like, fuck those people. Right. Fuck those people, go on your search parties. Who cares? Who cares what anybody thinks? I wouldn't give a shit what anybody thought. All I would care about was finding her. Meanwhile, the police are trying to build a case against Casey for murder. When they get back the forensics from the trunk car, they have enough circumstantial evidence to go ahead with that charge. So at this point, Casey's in jail. She's been charged with murder. It takes a while for something to go to court, obviously. Now on December 11th, 2008, a utility worker finds what looks like a skull, and he pokes at it with a stick to make sure it is a skull, and then he calls 911 to report it. When the police go to the scene of the skull, they find other items in a garbage bag, including a baby blanket with Winnie the Pooh and Piglet. But animals had dragged the skeleton all around the woods, and it was the closest place to the Antony's house that was actually a wooded, secluded area. Eight days later, they're able to reveal that the remains are that of Kaylee Anthony. And the cause of death is ruled homicide purely based on the circumstances. And a little bit deeper into that, there's no way from the remains of the body that they could tell how she died, but the fact that they Find the body wrapped in a blanket in a garbage bag with duct tape. The only thing they could find, rule it as, is a homicide. Like that is the next thing to happen.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

George and Cindy are devastated. Obviously, they've been searching and they just act they act like like grandparents should do. Now I do believe that they already knew. But at least they knew how to act.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

The police get a warrant for the Antony's house and see that Kaylee's room was decorated with Winnie the Pooh. And also a canvas bag that was found at the scene, which is only sold as a pair, the mate to it was in the house. So now they're charging her with first degree murder. Good. On May 9th, 2011, jury selection begins. But as Florida allows all these details to be released, it was hard to find people that didn't know about the case already. And as a result, they had to fly a jury in from another state. So this poor jury, as if jury service isn't bad enough, has to leave their families and actually fly and go stay in another state. They also allow the public inside the courthouse. So people waited in line for hours and fought over spaces to be in line to be inside. Now, unusually, Cindy and George were allowed in the courtroom. Usually you don't allow witnesses in a courtroom because their testimony can be influenced by other people's testimony, but they were allowed in because they were the grandparents of Kaylee. So I guess that ranked higher than the fact that they were a witness. But they were told you are not allowed to show any emotion. Like we will let you in the courtroom because you're the grandparents, but you cannot show any emotion whatsoever. I don't know how they did that. So the prosecution interviews a childhood friend of Casey's about the pregnancy, who told them that Casey actually wanted an abortion, but that Cindy wouldn't allow it and made her go through with it. In the defense opening statement, they state that Kaylee, drowned by accident in the family pool, was found by George and Casey while Cindy was out. And George covered it up to protect Casey. And this is the first time anybody had heard this theory. Now the police did say that when they were trying to get Casey to confess, they said, hey, look, we know accidents happen, things could happen, maybe something happened, you just have to tell us. So, you know, it can happen. So they believe that they actually planted that seed in there to give Casey an excuse, and that that's the excuse they they rolled with. Because as the defense, especially after a body's been found, although you don't have to prove anything, you do sort of need, for the jury's sake, to come up with an alternate theory. Theory. Also, as part of this defense, they say that that is actually how George disposed of family pets when they died, was to wrap them up in a blanket and then a garbage bag. And I guess he threw them in the woods, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Why would you put duct tape on it though? Like obviously he wouldn't dispose of the body of his granddaughter the same way as he would have a pet. And that still doesn't like whatever. That makes no sense, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

That was their proof that Oh, well, George must have done it, because that's how he got disposed of dead bodies. The eye roll. She could eye roll for the Guinness World right there. Oh man. So Jose admits Casey's a liar because she had always been taught to lie due to sexual abuse from her father to cover up everything. Now remember, George is in the courtroom and he's not allowed to show any emotions. So covering this up at her father's say-so was her normal. She says her father told her to sober, and she was taught to lie. So George is the next witness up. The prosecution asks him about the sexual abuse and covering up the death of Kaylee. And I put here, why the fuck would Casey live there with her daughter if she knew her father was a sexual abuser of female children? That's a valid question. There's nothing on earth that could make me take my f any child but a female child to go live with somebody that I knew was a sexual abuser from personal experience. I agree. 100%. The documentary then shows a visit between George and Casey in the jail where she says how much she loves him and what a great father and grandfather he was. Okay. Is that how you act towards your sexual abuser? That does not align. The defense does not cross-examine him about the sexual abuse, but goes straight to asking him about a suicide attempt that he made shortly after Kaylee's body was found. He had a breakdown, he attempted to take his own life. He says it was just all too much, but the prosecution says it was an act of guilt. His suicide note had no confession, just a desire to go be with Kaylee. So next onto the forensics from the car. The witness there is Dr. Voss, and he says that the sample of carpet from the car was tested for vapours, and the vapours matched that of a decomposing body. The hairs found in the trunk were analyzed by the FBI had to have come from Cindy, Casey, or Kaylee, but because the hair was not treated had to be from Cayley, process of elimination, and the pattern of the hair also indicated that it had a decomposition band. Both of this indicated that there had been a dead body in the car, most likely Kaylee's. There was also a lot of evidence of chloroform in the car, which matched searches on the Anthony family computer on how to make chloroform. And this was their case for premeditation. I may come across Dr. G. That's what she's known as on TV, because of course she got to have a nice little TV show after this when her name was known. She testifies about the duct tape that was found around the jaw, apparently still attached to the skull. She says that would normally not happen. And if one of the reasons why she declared it a homicide. She says, actually, that no time ever should a child have duct tape on their face. Period. And we didn't need an expert to tell us that. Right. She says it was wide enough to cover both the mouth and the nose of a two-year-old. So the prosecution prosecution believes that Casey used chloroform to make Kaylee unconscious, and then used duct tape to suffocate her in her sleep. Then wrapped her in a blanket, put her in a trash bag in the trunk of the car, went to her boyfriend's house, and then a day or two later dumped her in the woods. Nailed to prove the why. So boyfriend Tony Lazaro was called to the stand and they asked him how she was acting during the time that Kaylee was missing. And he said she wasn't crying, she wasn't worried. In fact, she didn't even mention it. She was partying, she was dancing, she competed in a sexy body competition. She seemed to be enjoying a child-free life. They then call a tattoo artist who gave Casey a tattoo while Kaylee was missing that says bella vita, meaning beautiful life. In the defense closing statement. Good point they made on the documentary, which we actually touched upon earlier. A defense doesn't have to prove anything. All they have to do is put questions to the prosecution's facts to create reasonable doubt. In fact, the way she describes it in the documentary is if each fact from the prosecution was a balloon, he just has to throw darts at each balloon until it pops. Which I thought was very good metaphor. Jose Bayez uses phrases like fantasy of forensics. And as Tina's mentioned before, people tend to believe experts. And all they have to do is produce their own experts with explanations for all the evidence that the prosecution has set shown us. He also questions the prosecution's witness to make them look dumb, which is what usually happens in a jury case. For instance, Dr. Voss, his specialty isn't in vapours of carpets. So that kind of thing he uses to just dispel the witness's evidence. His explanation for the smell in the car was the bag of garbage made worse by the Florida summer. They use Cindy's flip-flop story as evidence, saying that Cindy just said dead body on the 911 call to get police there quickly. Oh, oh, I think there's a dead body smell here. No, because you come quickly, my granddaughter's missing.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah. As far as chloroform searches go on the computer, they put Cindy on the stand who says she looked up chlorophyll, and autocorrect and search suggestions brought up chloroform. Nonsense. However, the time the searches were done, Cindy was at work, not by the home computer. They actually had time cards to prove this. But they think that a mother will do anything to protect her child. Unless, of course, that mother is Casey Entity. Right. They want all of the forensic evidence from the body thrown out because the guy that found it used a stick to pick up the skull. I'm like, what? Okay, so dismiss the skull. You want to throw everything out? He didn't even pick it up with his hands.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Right. It was still found with duct tape in a trash bag in the woods. The car still smelled like a dead body. Casey still didn't report her missing for 31 days. She was living her best life for those 30. I mean, there's so much evidence here.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

It's crazy. So then the duct tape comes into question and they say it cannot be considered because no DNA was found on it. There was nothing to prove it was ever over Casey's mouth. Again, he doesn't have to say why it was there. He just has to give reasonable doubt of why it can't be considered in the case. And then we have experts who question if this can even be ruled a homicide. No. It's bewildering. They get all of the friends who reported her as partying while Katie was missing and ask if she was a good mother, and they all say yes. They use this to show there was no motive. She was not seeking a child-free life. The defense does not go into the allegations again. After their opening statement about sexual abuse of Katie by her father, they did not provide any evidence that she was sexually abused. They did not provide any evidence that Kaylee drowned, and they didn't even mention it again after the opening statement. Now to the jury. So thousands of people are outside the courthouse seeking justice for Kaylee. And it only took them eleven hours. And on July 5th, 2011, they have a verdict. The judge reads it first, and he has to read it twice because he's in disbelief. They have found her not guilty of all murder, homicide, child cruelty, and neglect charges, and guilty of four counts of lying to the police, which are all misdemeanors.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Unbelievable and infuriating to this day.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

And the one I absolutely cannot wrap my head around is the child neglect. She admits she did not report her child missing for 31 days. She admitted that. That is child neglect. How can you find her not guilty on something she admitted? That is neglect. So everyone is shocked, even the judge. Cindy says she's at peace with the verdict. She prayed. She prayed that Casey would get what was coming to her, and so what she got was what she deserved, and therefore the verdict was correct.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Did she pray for little Kaylee? Wonder if she prayed for her. Wonder what that got her. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

George just says basically, Jose did a better job of convincing the jury than the other guy. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Jose says, I saved a life.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

It's nothing to be proud of, but okay. I don't like Jose Baez for the record. And this isn't the only case, and we won't even go down that rabbit hole, but we may do one day, but not today. Yeah, he tends to take on cases of just absolute monsters. He does not have a soul.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And then he he just snowballed it from there, realized that that was a good moneymaker pinch. Right. The people outside the courtroom are devastated and angry. Jury members start receiving death threats, but they say they do not necessarily believe that Casey was innocent. They just didn't feel like there was enough evidence to convict her beyond a reasonable doubt.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Hello? What do you mean there wasn't enough evidence? There was a fucking mountain.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Are you all blind, deaf, and dumb? They say there was no definite cause of death, no place of death, etc. So no actual facts could be proved. So due to time served, Casey only serves another 10 days for the four charges of misdemeanor lying to the police. But that is not the end of our scandal. After she is released, she lives with her attorney due to the relationship with her parents being strained. And after that, she moves around like a nomad. I remember at the time as well, she used to complain that nobody would give her a job, boo-hoo. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

She's a pariah, and she always will be. And that's I mean, she deserves worse, but we'll settle for that.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

So two of her convictions get overturned. But she does get sued by both the search companies and by Senaida Gonzalez. Good. For defamation of character. So as a result of being sued, she files for bankruptcy. However, in the bankruptcy court findings, they reveal a worker who worked for the defense team who says that Jose had control over Casey and she was paying him in sexual favours and they possibly started an affair. Casey claims she had no choice because she had no money to pay him. It also comes out that Jose Byers knew Kaylee was dead before she was found. A detective he had hired had come up with the idea to say that Casey drowned in the pool. So the police say we planted that seed, but in these bankruptcy findings, and this detective was subpoenaed, he said that he came up with the idea. Casey and Jose deny all of this, but the detective swears under oath that he knows what he saw. And then the last thing in this particular documentary is an interview with Cindy and George. Cindy says she believes that Kaylee accidentally drowned in the pool. No one is responsible. It was an accident. Casey tried to cover it up. She lied due to the shock of losing her daughter. She says Jose told her this and she believes him. So that's Cindy's stance at the end of this particular documentary. George doesn't believe she drowned. He believes Casey had been drugging Kaylee for a while to make her sleep while she could do whatever she wanted to do, and she just accidentally overdid it one day. He says he had seen Kaylee be acting tired and groggy and druggy.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

I believe that. I I definitely believe that she was drugging her so that she could go out and party, but that still doesn't explain so many things. The full foolproof suffocation methods, Google search.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, that comes up in a little while. So George thinks that it was illegal street prescription drugs like Xanax. To which Clint, Tony's roommate, thinks that that's where the phrase Zanny the nanny came from. Just a sicko. She's just a fucking sicko. Cindy still has a relationship with Casey, but George never wants to speak to her again and would like to see her go to jail. And I honestly don't know how this couple stays together.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

They say they stick together because what they've been through, nobody else would understand. The judge and the prosecutor then say that only Casey knows what happens, and maybe one day she will tell, but I would not bet a single penny on those odds. Nor would I. The laws in Florida have now been changed to say that if a parent does not report a child missing in a timely fashion, they can face up to 20 years in jail. Good. This the next documentary we want to cover about this same case is called Where the Truth Lies. And it is a 2022 Peacock documentary that has an updated interview with Casey along with some of the other people from the first one. And I'm not going to go over all the facts that we've already gone over because a lot of them were repeated. But there are a few facts and little nuggets from this documentary that I would like to cover, if that's okay with you. Absolutely. All right. So, first thing that strikes me is it starts off with them interviewing Casey Anthony. And they say to her, Why didn't you want to film this documentary at your house? Because they're all staying in this rental house. And she says, Because I value my privacy. So the first question that jumps to mind is, so why are you doing the interview? I know you immediately makes no sense. I value my privacy, but I agreed to do this interview with you. Okay. She unpacks pretty much nothing but pictures of her and Kaylee, and I put here eye roll. Right. And pictures Kaylee made for her. She specifically says, back then there was no drama. So she looks at these pictures and she says, I love these pictures. I love looking at them because back then there was no drama. You mean apart from the abuse that you and Kaylee were apparently getting. No drama but that, right? Right. Right. They ask her why she finally wants to do the interview now, and she says, I needed time, and I just want someone to listen, and I still don't know what happened to my daughter.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Oh my God. You've known since day one, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

She says she had no support from her biological family after the trial, which was interesting because Cindy said that she was still in contact with her.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Right. I don't believe that. Casey very much seems like her parents always handed her whatever she wanted. They let her have a car, money, whatever. I I don't buy that, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Well, we don't buy a lot of her bullshit. So she had no support from her biological family, but her defense team says they were determined to help her get back to a normal life, and they became her family. She started working for them as a research assistant and has been doing so for the past ten years. And she says she's doing that to pay it forward to other innocent people accused of crimes they didn't commit. Oh God, y'all. She explains the tattoo. She said, I had Bella Vita done as a fuck you to my family. Basically, we gave off this beautiful family life and it was all a fuss, and so it was done as like a sarcastic fuck you to the family. But she's now had it covered up with peonies and half a mandela, that she says stands for growth and rebirth. Yeah, I bet. Now she had it covered up because it counted against her in her trial. They interviewed the lead investigator again, and he says there is still no doubt in his mind that Casey killed Kaylee. One thing they do mention here that I don't remember from before is how she used stolen checks in the 30 days that Kaylee was missing. Her friends' checks. Right. They speak to several friends of Casey, again. They all say she was a good mom, again, she loved her daughter, but that she did absolutely nothing to look for her in those 31 days. And she had always been a liar. They seem to believe that Casey would never intentionally hurt Kaylee, but that she knows what happens and probably covered up something accidental.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

That's an oxymoron, by the way. You can't call someone a good mother and in the same sentence say, Her daughter was missing for 31 days and she never looked for her.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

She didn't do anything. Yeah, that's a great mother. I don't think that's ever happened before in the history that we know of. Right. Okay. So Casey then throws a lot of shade on her dad. Affairs, gambling, lying. She praises her mom for being loving and hardworking. I wonder if that is ref a reflection of her relationship with them now, being as her mom still talks to her and her dad doesn't. She complains about never having good sleep because she always has nightmares about the trauma and abuse. Not from losing her child, from being raped by her father.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

I I think I think having my daughter found in a plastic bag with duct tape would give me bigger nightmares. But anyway. So she says this abuse started when she was eight years old and stopped when she was twelve. And then her brother took over till she was fifteen. I I just I've never heard of sexual abuses just being like, I'm just gonna do it for these few years. Now I'm done. Your turn.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Yeah. And I like I don't want to necessarily say that she's totally full of shit. Like it it could have happened, but none of that makes sense. None of that aligns with a typical story of abuse. And she only came out with this story of abuse to say, Oh, I didn't kill my daughter because I was abused, which doesn't make any sense anyway, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

It kind of comes up a bit later as to how that um how that came about for her to to start to start saying that. Yeah. Dots that she tried to convince her. Yeah, right. Um, now we mention her brother here. I've deliberately left him out of this whole episode. She did have a brother, he wasn't living at home at the time. He definitely had nothing to do with the disappearance, um, the murder, and he's not in any of the documentaries, and I just want to respect his choice to have not been involved in this case. So the only involvement is that she says her brother never actually raped her, but he came as close to it as he could. And another thing that they say in the documentary quite often, her friends do, is that she lied all the time, like way before this happened. She was always lying, but there was always a nugget of truth in the lie. So as Tina said, you know, maybe something did happen to her at some point. We we can't say for sure whether or not she was ever sexually abused. Maybe she was, and that's the root of some of these lies. But in which case, you know, I'm sorry to hear that. But a lot of people are, and they don't murder their talk. Exactly. All right, she has a new tattoo that she calls her tribute to Kayleigh. I didn't even bother taking the time to write down what it says because bullshit, yeah. She said that she was even told to lie about being pregnant. That she was obviously six months pregnant and that her parents were still denying it. She says that she got pregnant because she was raped at 18. They ask her if it was by her dad and if her dad or brother could possibly be the father, and she says no. She says that she was drunk at a house party and somebody drugged her and she has no recollection of what happened, but she woke up knowing that she had been abused sexually. She told her boyfriend at the time, Jesse, that he was the father and let him believe it for the whole pregnancy. But he ended up getting a DNA test. He found out Kaylee was not his, and she still didn't tell him or her parents she was raped. She just said it was some old frame. When confronted on lies, she admits to it, but complains that nobody asked her why she lied. I'm pretty sure they did.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

They did many, many times.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

So the interviewer asks her why she lied, and she says, I was just doing what my father told me. Then they ask her what happened on that day, and she says that Kaylee was sleeping in bed with her. And that she always had Kaylee sleep in bed with her so that she was safe from her father. Again, I'm going back to the point that I wouldn't even live there with my young daughter if I knew that there was an abuser in the house. Um her father woke her up to ask where Kaylee was, and Kaylee was missing from the bed. She said she ran outside looking for her. They asked her if she went to the pool, but she said no, I didn't have to because suddenly I saw my father standing there holding her wet body and that's relevant, wet body. He handed her over to Casey and said, This is all your fault. She said she was hysterical. Her father took the body back and then disappeared with it. So this is her story. She said her dad then told her to act normal, and that's why there are pictures of her dancing and partying while she was apparently working with Tony, who was a DJ. Hilariously, she claimed she was in touch with her dad, who said Kaylee was fine, and that for those 31 days, George had kidnapped Kaylee. This is so bizarre. I can't even read it. So she hold she held a cold, wet body in her hands, but that didn't make her call the police, call an ambulance, anything. She hands the body back to her dad, who just disappears with it. Then she goes off to stay at her boyfriend's house, constantly in contact with her dad, who says Kaylee is fine, and in her mind, her dad has kidnapped Kaylee. I'm just like, what what? Nonsense. None of it makes any sense. And I put here Did you normally spend 31 days away from your child thinking she was alive? Right, right. Um, if you thought Kaylee was alive, why didn't you do anything when George handed you to her? So you thought she was alive, he hands you the body, and instead of being like, oh my god, let's get her warm and dry, you just hand her back and go to your boyfriend's house.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah. And then she talks about being in prison and poor me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

She says talking to the other inmates in jail made her realize that she was sexually abused. So she started writing to other inmates in jail. But that part, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

I don't, yeah, I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Like, write to your family. If you're in if you're in jail for something you didn't do, write to your fucking Congress. Write to anyone that oh, listen, write to news outlets or write to other inmates in jail.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Well, she chose to write to inmates because they didn't truly know her background or the truth, and they were like a blank canvas for her to just lie and give them a big pity party. And so they'll say, Oh, poor you.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Oh, and it was those inmates in jail that made her realize that she was sexually abused. So she starts writing letters to other inmates specifying it, knowing that these letters would be read. So she meets other people in jail who say, Hey, I know why that happened to you, because I was sexually abused, and so therefore you must have been, because that made me act out, so that must have been what you may acted out. And so she latches onto this as like, oh, yeah. So she writes to other people about it, knowing that they will intercept her letters, and therefore these become evidence that she was sexually abused. And she knew that those letters would be released to the Florida public. As the police point out, she lied about everything else. Why would the letters be truthful? Right. So here we now get to hear about Crystal Holloway. She had an affair with George and says that George told her Kaylee had died as a result of an accident. They actually met at a search tent while on the hunt for Kaylee. They did not mention if George confirms or denies the affair, but he was picking up women at the search tent. I mean, that's diabolical. And then he tells her, I know already know Kaylee's dead. So, oh, oh, by the way, I guess there's no point in us actually searching because I know she's dead. Let's go have a drink. Right? If you're volunte if you're a volunteer at a search party, you obviously care about what happened to this child. If somebody then says, Well, I know that she's dead, I mean, why didn't she report that to the and just so many holes in the She wanted fame 100%?

SPEAKER_02 50:27

She wanted her 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

So when they ask Casey if Kaylee drowned, she says, absolutely no way. There was no ladder. There's no way she drowned. That story can't be true. So they say to her, Okay, so why was Kaylee wet? When your dad handy. And she says, I don't know. She still lives with Pat McKenna, part of her defense team, as part of his family, refers to him as a father figure and says the person that would walk her down the aisle.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

I think that's so weird. Like, I think that that is so weird for her to be living with her defense team. Like, you have a law degree, you have to be at least partially intelligent. Like, there's no way these people actually believe that she's innocent.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

So maybe they felt Why would you have somebody live with you and your family for 10 years that you thought was a child murder?

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

I mean, I think I think they fought for her lies.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

I don't think so. Really? I think that it they finally realized they were in over their heads and, like, holy shit, she actually did this, and like, let's keep her under our thumb so that she doesn't make us look bad. That's what I think. Anyway, continue. Okay. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

She accuses her parents of throwing her under the bus on shows like Dr. Phil purely for making money. And then she sits outside the jail in her car talking about the time she spent in there like she was a victim for the time that she served, which was literally served for lying to the police, which she admits that she's guilty of. So you can't be poor me, I was in jail, it was awful. Oh, but I did actually commit that crime.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Right. So additional information that we learn that was not in the previous documentary. Casey's cell phone pinged from the house all day on the day of Kaylee's death slash disappearance. And searches from Casey's password protected computer were made for foolproof suffocation. When questioned, Casey says everyone knew everybody else's password, and her dad worked so close to the house that he could have searched for it too. Towards the end of the newest documentary, she claims that she never left Kaylee alone with George and was always working towards getting her and Kaylee out of the house and away from her family. She had lied about working at Universal Studios so that they wouldn't know what she was planning. So she was working, she'd quit to work as a bartender so that she could earn cash, stash it away, and get her and Kaylee out of the house. And then it pretty much just ends with her sat in the car crying, poor me.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Yeah, eternal victim, Casey Anthony. Um, and there's a couple things that I want to mention. Dominate Casey, who was hired by Jose Baez's defense team for Casey, they said that they wanted to implicate Roy Krunk in the murder. Now, Roy Krunk is the meter reader that found the body. And they also wanted to try to implicate her mom, dad, and brother. So literally just whoever, they were ready to ruin literally anybody's life. Yeah. They they wanted to try to implicate him and say that he kidnapped her and Well, it was anybody but me. Right, exactly. Anybody but me. She was really willing to just destroy anybody.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

The judge did it.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Right. And so then we went we already went over the defense team that she lived with. That was weird. I think the whole family dynamic is weird. And both of her parents did pass a polygraph. They did a documentary where they gave them both a polygraph and they passed, but like it's just weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah, for Nancy Grace was there, the devil is dancing tonight.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Right. So um, for the Peacock documentary, the one where they actually interview Casey, they offered Nancy Grace that interview with Casey. But Nancy Grace was like, absolutely not. I'm not gonna do it because they wanted to kind of try to paint Casey in like a good light and as the victim. And Nancy Grace, being Nancy Grace, was like, hell no, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

So way to go, Nancy. And I don't think you did paint her in a good light. I think she hoped it would. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

That was clearly the motive, but like knowing what we know, like, come on. Anyway, so what do we ultimately think happened to Kaylee? I think that Casey murdered her. I think that she never wanted to be a mother, and she resented having to be a mother. She resented her parents for making her become a mother. So she killed Kaylee so that she wouldn't have that burden of motherhood anymore. And also as a quote unquote fuck you to her parents, which she's admitted she wanted to do with that tattoo. Yep. She murdered her because she wanted a party. And I know it's like, how is that possible? How could somebody be so evil? But I think it really is that simple.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I mean, just she definitely did it 100%. Like, there's no doubt. There shouldn't be any doubt in anybody's mind. It blows my mind that there's any doubt in anybody's mind. I do feel bad for the poor jury because at the time, what a spot they were put on. Right. And I'm sure that they were constantly reminded there has to be like no reasonable doubt, blah, blah, blah. And they're right about the fact that there's n there's no exact cause of death and so on, but that doesn't make it okay. Exactly. So yes, I believe Casey did it. And I believe that Cindy probably doesn't know exactly what happened, but she knows Casey did it. And she's just in denial because it's the only way that she can live with herself.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Yeah, and I think she also is very overly concerned with the family's appearance. She's like, oh my god, I can't have a murderer for a daughter.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

I think that George knows that Casey did it, and I think he knows a lot more than he's saying. It's kind of weird though, because him and Casey don't speak, but I believe they both know what happened. And I'm surprised one of them hasn't turned on the other by now.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Yeah, I agree. I think he does know more. And maybe he has shame that like he didn't report something sooner or do something about it sooner. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know. Maybe he blames himself.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

He doesn't come across like he does. He says that Casey should be in jail. Right, right. I don't know. It it the whole thing's just so sad and fucked up. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Oh, and she has since tried to open a couple of businesses, like a photography business. And I think last year she tried to get on TikTok and be like, oh, I'm a victim's advocate for people like myself. Like, you are not a victim.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

She's still trying to play on it. She's like, oh, I work here doing research because I'm paying it forward to other people wrongly accused. Oh, I'm gonna be a victim's advocate. I mean, like, uh honestly, girl, go change your name. Yeah. Move to another fucking country and change your name because it's the only way that you are gonna have any kind of life. I think she still likes the attention.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Obviously, she does, because why hasn't she moved somewhere else, changed her name, and just fucked the fuck off?

SPEAKER_01 57:16

She likes to be the victim. She likes to be able to still walk around doing interviews going, poor me, poor me. There's not much else to say after that. All right, so tune in next week for another Liar.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Yeah, next week we are doing Sherry Papini. So all kinds of lies.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Yeah, all kinds of kinds of kinds of lies. Like just two people that probably should just elope together and never be seen again. Yeah, they'd be BFFs. Mm-hmm, for real. Although they just lie to each other all the time. But anyway, all right, so tune in next week for Sherry Papini. Hope you enjoyed Casey Anthony. Um, we hate her. And that's it. Until next time.