Episode 21: The Gilgo Beach Killer

One of the most recent convictions for one of the most heinous serail killers. Over a 30 year period this man got away with living a normal life with a wife and kids while luring sex workers into his basement kill room to meet their fate. You do not want to miss this episode!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hey, all you true crime divas and dudes. Tina here, and you are listening to Deadly Divas. Thank you for joining us this week.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

And I'm Sarah. If you're new here, welcome to the podcast where we break down all the true crime stories that you cannot get enough of.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

If you're a returning listener, thank you for hopping back in to talk true crime with us this week. We appreciate you. And today, we have got a real doozy for y'all. We are talking about the most heinous serial killer in recent history, Rex Hewerman, aka the Gilgo Beach Killer.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

And if you are a returning listener and you have friends that haven't heard us, don't forget to spread the word. But this is probably one of the darkest cases we've discussed so far. So buckle in and get ready.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

So for nearly 30 years, Rex Hewerman lived what looked like a completely normal life. He commuted into Midtown Manhattan, where he ran a successful architectural firm. And he had a loving and devoted wife, whom he shared a daughter with, as well as a stepson. And by all accounts, he was a good and involved father and came home for dinner with his family every night in a quaint little Long Island suburb. Like nothing about this man raised alarms.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Always the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Always. His neighbors waved to him, and again, his wife described him as a devoted family man. And yet he was allegedly living a double life that is genuinely hard to wrap your head around. Because on April 8th, 2026, Rex Heuerman stood in a Suffolk County courtroom and pled guilty to murdering seven women while also admitting to an eighth.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Actually, I will say when I say isn't always that way, I meant with serial killers. Because when it's a guy that like kills their wife, everyone's like, oh, I could tell he was weird from the start, or he was always like mean to her or whatever. So when it's somebody that just kills one person intends to turn on somebody they love, everybody saw it coming. It's the serial killers that always come across as like, oh, he seemed like such a nice guy.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Always the biggest shock. It's like it's your neighbor, it's the guy at work. Anyway, what was more disturbing about the crimes themselves is how Rex delivered his pleas. No emotion, no hesitation, just matter of fact, like he was running through a checklist at work, which honestly that tracks. I mean, you have to be a sociopath or a psychopath to be able to commit the unspeakable acts that he did. And this is someone whose crimes go all the way back to 1993. Damn. So the question is, how does someone like this operate for decades in a quiet Long Island suburb without anyone catching on? This gave me such dexter vibes. Yeah. Big, huge dexter vibes. Right. So to understand this, we have to start way earlier. Rex Hewerman was born September 13th, 1963 and grew up in Massapequa Park, which again is just your typical middle class Long Island suburb. Nothing unusual there. He graduated from Berner High School in 1981, and many of his classmates there described him as a mama's boy and not in a cute way, more like very attached to a mother who was allegedly very controlling even into his adulthood. Family members say that Rex's father was also extremely controlling and abusive with a quick temper. Rex was also very introverted as a child, like shy to the point of being totally antisocial. And it seems that he was the target of a lot of bullying and abuse at school and from basically all angles. And then when he was 12, his father sadly passed away. Didn't kill him, did he? I hope not. Jesus. But before that, the two spent a lot of time together in the basement workshop. Building furniture, working with their hands. And this is important because Rex never really left that environment. In 1994, he actually bought that same childhood home from his mother and lived there all the way up until his arrest in 2023.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Wait, did his mother still live there?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Not sure where his mother was. His father died, but where's mom? Not sure where mom is. Didn't get any clear.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Oh God, I hope not. So yeah, he lived in the same house, worked in the same basement, the same workshop. And honestly, that is a little weird. Red flags. Yeah, kind of red flags there. And behavioral experts later pointed to this as a big piece of the puzzle that this need for control, structure, precision, it didn't just appear out of nowhere. It was built over time. And professionally, that worked in his favor. He became an architectural consultant in Manhattan, basically someone who solves complicated structural problems and navigates all the red tape that comes with building codes. And he was smart. Right. He was smart, smart. So we're talking about someone who is detail-oriented, methodical, and very comfortable planning things out step by step, which later on becomes absolutely horrifying. Now, for years, none of this was on anybody's radar until May 1st, 2010. That's when 24-year-old Shannon Gilbert made a 911 call from inside a gated community called Oak Beach. And this call is hard to listen to. It lasts over 20 minutes. And throughout it, Shannon goes back and forth between sounding calm, confused, and completely terrified. At one point, she tells the dispatcher, There's somebody after me. Now, Shannon's driver is outside, and the client that she's been seeing is inside. And both of them are trying to convince her that everything is fine. But Shannon is clearly not okay. She asks her driver, Are you gonna kill me? And he's like, No, it's me, Mike. But then she flips and says, You're part of this. And then again, she switches back and is begging him to help her. So whatever was happening in that moment, she felt like she was in serious danger. She actually ends up running out of the house and into the neighborhood and she's knocking on doors, begging for help from strangers. Sounds like a movie school. Right. And at one point, a man named Gus Colletti lets her speak to him and she tells him, I need help. He calls the police, but when he suggests that she wait there for them, she panics and runs off again. She goes to another house and that woman calls 911, but she does not let Shannon inside, which is just, ugh. And that woman later explains that she did not let Shannon in because it was just her and her elderly mother in the home and they were vulnerable. So I get that, but still it's like, what if, you know?

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah, that's a tricky one though, because if you were somebody of ill intent, that would be a way to get in somebody's house that would probably work.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, by the time the police get there, about an hour later, Shannon is gone. She disappears into the marshy area nearby and just vanishes. Now, it takes 18 months to find Shannon's body. 18 months, mostly because the local area authorities couldn't be bothered, which is infuriating. But during that search, police end up finding four other bodies. All women, all wrapped in burlap. These victims become known as the Gilgo Four. So now what started as a missing person's case is something much bigger. But here's where things get more frustrating. Police maintain that Shannon's death was an accident. Their theory is that she ran into the marsh in a panic, possibly under the influence and died from exposure. But her family does not agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

I think I would either, after all the bunkles and everything.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Right? Yeah, they believe that she was running for her life. And they bring in a private forensic pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden, to take another look. And what he finds raises serious questions. First, her body was found face up, which is not typical in drowning cases. But more concerning was the condition of her hyoid bone. It was damaged in a way that suggested force, even described as having a hole through it. Wait, where's that bone? It's in your neck, like right here. You guys can't see, but it's in your neck. The front, the front of the face. Right, right. Right below your face. So Dr. Baden concluded that her injuries were actually consistent with strangulation, which completely contradicts the police narrative. Now, to this day, police have not officially connected Shannon Gilbert to Rex Hewerman, but here's the thing: if she hadn't disappeared that night, there's a very real chance that those other victims would have wouldn't have been discovered when they were, because her case is what led investigators to that stretch of Gilgo Beach in the first place. And what they found there was essentially a serial killer's dumping ground. So at this point, investigators know they're dealing with multiple victims. They know there's a pattern, but they have no idea who's responsible. So while they're trying to piece things together, and honestly not getting very far, the person responsible for these crimes, he's out there doing something even more disturbing. He is contacting the victims' families. In July of 2009, 24-year-old Melissa Barthelemy goes missing. And just one week later, her 15-year-old sister Amanda starts receiving phone calls from Melissa's phone. Let that sink in. He's just playing with them. And these aren't just random calls. They go on for weeks. The man on the other end is described as vulgar, mocking, and intentionally cruel. He is taunting a 15-year-old girl about her missing sister. At one point, he's actually making racial insults. He is calling her names, and then he escalates it even further, telling her that Melissa is dead and that he is going to watch her rot. Like this is beyond disturbing. This is psychological torture. And what makes it even worse is how this was handled by the police. Police essentially had Amanda stay on the phone with him when he called so they could try to trace it. Which, yes, I get it. Like they're trying to catch him. But we're talking about a teenager being repeatedly traumatized by a man who killed her sister, and she's just supposed to keep answering. It's honestly unbelievable. At 15, yeah. At 15, yeah. And her sister's missing, dead, probably. Like I can't imagine what this poor girl must have been feeling.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

I mean, if it was like your daughter, you're the mother, and you want the person caught, you might be prepared to be part of the investigation. But at 15, that's just not fair.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I agree. So they do actually manage to trace some of the calls to locations like Madison Square Garden, Midtown Manhattan, and Massapequa. All places that will later connect directly back to Rex Hewerman. But at the time, it doesn't lead to an arrest. And Amanda's life is completely upended by this. She stops trusting people, she drops out of school. And yeah, like of course she did. She was living a literal nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

She must have been on the edge of her nerves like 24-7.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So now before we move forward, there's one detail that I want to clarify because this was misunderstood for a long time, even by me, and I learned this uh while I was researching this case. There was a toddler found near the victims, often referred to as baby doe. For years, people believed that this child was connected to the Gilgo Beach Killer. But in 2025, DNA testing confirmed something different. The child was actually named Tatiana Dykes, and she was the daughter of another victim named Tanya Jackson. And in a completely separate case, the child's father, Andrew Dykes, was charged with their murders. So, as horrific as that is, it is not connected to Rex Hewerman.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Just everybody dumped their bodies in the same place, I guess. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

And that that opens up that discussion. Now multiple bodies from multiple perpetrators have been found in this same area. Is this a coincidence? Are they somehow connected?

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Do they have a support group? Where they say, hey, where do we dump bodies nowadays?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Right. It's like, is this a place just known by killers where you can just do stereo killers anonymous? Right. And they'll just never be found. And how many more bodies could possibly still be concealed there?

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Oh no, that's a thought.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I think the most horrifying aspect of that is that this is a family recreational area. Like parents take their kids there to enjoy a day at the beach. So you've got small children just building sandcastles, looking for seashells, playing in the water. And meanwhile, unknowingly, a human body dumping round is just nearby. Like it's almost unfathomable. So at this point, you might be wondering, how does someone get away with this? How does Rick's get away with this for decades? I'm wondering. And the answer is it's kind of a perfect storm. First, technology. Back in the early 2000s, forensic labs just didn't have the ability to get usable DNA from the type of evidence that they had, specifically hairs that didn't have a root. That becomes important later. Second, police issues. And this part is infuriating. Former Suffolk County Police Chief James Burke basically blocked the FBI from getting involved in this case for years, which is a huge deal because this is exactly the kind of case where federal resources could have made a difference. And it wasn't until Burke himself was indicted and later sent to prison for an unrelated case that that roadblock was finally removed. So now we're in 2022. A new police commissioner, Rodney Harrison, steps in and forms a task force. And within weeks, they find something that had been sitting there the whole time. A witness statement from 2010. When Amber Costello disappeared, someone reported seeing her get into a truck, a first-generation Chevy Avalanche driven by a very large man. And when they run that, it leads them to Rex Hewerman, who owns a 2002 Chevy Avalanche. And here's where it gets even more interesting. Digital records later show that Rex was actually worried about that truck being identified. At one point, he's searching online for a new avalanche, specifically in lighter colors, because his was dark green, which is a pretty big red flag. But the final piece is almost ridiculous in how simple it is. Investigators are surveilling him in Manhattan. They watch him throw away a pizza box and they recover the crust from the trash. And that is how they get his DNA.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I've never heard of it done that way before. That's I've heard of a glass or a cigarette, but that's pretty.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I feel like that's just such a New York thing. Like the pizza. So that DNA ends up being a match to the evidence tied to the victims. A literal pizza crust is what helps bring down a suspected serial killer. DNA is fascinating, y'all. Yeah. Caught by pizza. So in July of 2023, police raid his home in Massapiqua Park, the same house he grew up in. And what they find inside is exactly as bad as you'd expect, if not worse. They find a vault in the basement. Think Dexter again, the kill room. Yeah. So this basement vault had a heavy reinforced steel door. And inside that basement vault were nearly 300 firearms. And that's already a problem because he was only licensed for 92. Who gets licensed for 92? I know. Who needs 92? I'm sorry. And people like guns, and I get it, whatever have your guns. But how many guns does a person need? Not 92. 92 is it's a red flag, period. Why do you need that many guns?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

How'd you get licensed for that many guns? That should have been a red flag somewhere. I mean, I grew up in a country without guns, so it's even more like horrifying to me that somebody could legally have that many guns. Not just have 92, but be approved to have 92. And I guess a background checking him, but I guess he didn't have anything on his record. At that point, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

So yeah, he was only licensed for 92 of those guns, but that is just the beginning. They also seize over 350 electronic devices, hard drives, storage units, years and years of digital material. And what's on them is a massive collection of violent torture pornography dating back decades. And some of it mirrors the way his victims were found, which is chilling. But the most disturbing thing they find is a document buried deep in a hard drive in deleted files. It's titled HK2002-04. And this is basically a blueprint for murder. This man, an architect, literally used his skill set to plan out these crimes in detail. The document includes checklists. Under print, he outlines things like building a holding area, setting up a table, installing anchor points in the ceiling. And anchor points, if you guys aren't familiar with what that is, because I sure wasn't, is something that you put into the ceiling like a hook so that you can suspend something from it. And that's horrific. Under body prep, it gets even worse. There are instructions about cleaning the body and removing identifying features like tattoos, trying to make sure that the victims could not be traced. He'd have a hard time with me. He'd have to skin me. He would. And I I think that's sort of what he did with some of them, which is just horrific. And then there's this section labeled Things to Remember. And one of the notes is sound travels. So he writes about ways to control noise using materials to muffle sound containing myths. And then this line, which is just haunting, more sleep and noise control equals more playtime. It's methodical, it's calculated, and it is deeply disturbing.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

But this letter or manual or whatever is also kind of a confession. Yeah. I mean, he thought he was smart and deleting it, but obviously, as you said before, anything deleted can be found. But it's basically his confession.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, and it completely aligns with the victims and how they're found and everything, the dates. Like he fried himself. Good. So at this point in the investigation, things are finally starting to come into focus. Phones, patterns, timelines, and then finally a name. A married father, an architect, a man who, by all outward appearances, was just normal, which is exactly what makes this next part so disturbing. Because when Rex Hewerman was arrested in July of 2023, he wasn't alone in that life. He had a wife, a family. His wife's name is Asa Ellerup. And when the news broke, when law enforcement came forward with what they described as overwhelming evidence, DNA, burner phones, cell site data, search histories, you would expect shock, fear, maybe even immediate acceptance that something was very, very wrong. But that is not what happened, at least not at first. Asa initially denied it. She stood by him.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

I kind of understand the denial at first, because if you've lived a life with somebody and he's never treated you like that, it must be hard to accept. So I get the denial at first.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, I definitely get it at first. This is somebody that you've been with for 20, 30 years. You share children. It's got to be hard to sink in. For sure. I can get the denial at first, like you said. But even as the evidence stacked higher and higher, she maintained that she did not believe he was capable of this. Now, yes, she did eventually file for divorce, but even then, her statements made it clear. She was struggling to reconcile the man she knew with the man investigators were describing. And that raises a question that is honestly hard to sit with. How do you live with someone like this and not know?

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Because you see it more than once. Look at Ted Bundy's book. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah. Because this wasn't impulsive. This was a whole double life. In fact, There's a four-part documentary on Peacock called The Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets, where Asa gives several intimate interviews. In earlier episodes of this documentary, Asa says that she would not believe any of this unless Rex told her to her face that he did it. She also says she never would have married him, brought her young son into his life, or had a daughter with him if she had known. I'd hope not. And yet, in episode four, he tells her he admits to her face to killing eight women. He admits one of the murders happened while she was pregnant before they were even married. He admits to bringing victims into their family home, to assaulting, torturing, murdering, and dismembering them in their family home where their children sleep at night.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

That's what's really creepy because a lot of the double life serial killers, or just people with double lives in general, everything else they do is away from the family, huh? Like take Scott Peterson, his whole other life with Amber Um Fry was not under the roof he was living in. It is definitely a whole different ball game when it's actually in your house for now. Yeah. And that definitely does make it harder to understand how there weren't some kind of red flags or suspicions.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Exactly. And after all of that, after Rex fully admitted to these heinous acts, Asa still visits him every chance she gets, and she takes his calls every day. She says that she wants to understand the other side of him, the serial killer side. I'm sorry. What? And I'll just say it. In the documentary, this is framed as like she's in therapy, she's processing her trauma, but that is not at all how it comes across to me. It reads like fascination. She seems totally enamored with him, still totally in love, maybe even more so. And then somehow it gets worse. She has reportedly, not even reportedly, because we can clearly see it in the documentary, it shows it. She has remodeled that same basement where he committed those heinous murders. And now she sleeps there every night. She says that it helps her spiritually. Um, I don't know what to say to that. I must have missed that part.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

It's at the very, very, very end of that episode. I did go all the way through, but because I'm basically listening a lot of the time and not actually able to watch it, maybe that's where I missed that she was sleeping in there.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Shows her in the basement, okay. It shows her sitting on the bed and she's got like stuffed animals everywhere. And she's like, Yeah, I just feel at peace here. I feel comfort here.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Which is interesting because when you said to you, it comes across it like she's got fascination with it. I got a little bit of a different vibe from it that I was gonna discuss with you either at the end or in the after show until you said that. And then I was like, all right, that does sound like a fascination. Yeah. But um, we'll get into my theory later on.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah, and I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt at the start of this. I really did. I really believe that she was innocent and naive and that she would eventually make the right decision here. I believed that she was just the type of woman that was pretty subservient and just would not question her husband.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

And they said his first wife, he left because she was too controlling, he said. And he said he couldn't control her. Exactly. And they really think that he picked Asa because she was subservient. So she was kind of picked for the role of a wife that wouldn't notice.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, wouldn't question anything.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

And and he was scheming before he started for sure. He maybe before he started, maybe he was killing before he met her. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Well, and that's a that's a theory that police actually have that I I have it on my list of things to discuss in the after show. But yeah, you guys, it is thought that he has killed other women in other parts of the country. Um, and if you're a subscriber, listen to the after show and we'll go over that. But anyway, um, yeah, I just can't justify this from the wife. It is so disrespectful to the victims, to the families of the victims, and to Asa's own children. Like, how do you think they feel about that?

SPEAKER_02 26:39

So the daughter was interviewed a lot, wasn't she? Oh my god, I felt for that poor girl. She's just so stuck in the middle and confused. And I so many things must be going around in her head, like, these are my parents. And was I ever in danger? And did you look at my friends like that? And I mean, just the poor girl. She's traumatized turmoil.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Oh, yeah, she's absolutely traumatized. And the media has not been kind to her, the public has not been kind to her. Um, and I think that needs to stop. Like, she's done nothing here.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

She's a victim.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, she's 100% a victim. And I felt that way about the wife too, but mm-mm, not anymore. I'm I'm done. But just to get serious for a minute, this is where the reality of this case really sets in. Because what these women experienced, it matters and it deserves to be acknowledged. Authorities allege that Rex Hewerman specifically targeted women he believed were vulnerable. Many of them were sex workers, women he thought the world wouldn't look too hard for. He used burner phones, aliases, and careful, deliberate planning. He would make contact, build just enough rapport to get them alone, and then that's when everything changed. Investigators believe his victims were restrained, held against their will, and subjected to prolonged violence. This wasn't quick. This wasn't a moment of rage. This was controlled, intentional. There are indications that he took steps to extend their suffering, to maintain power, to make sure that they could not escape, and to make sure they knew exactly what was happening. And after he killed them, he disposed of their bodies along the desolate stretches of Gilgo Beach, left there as if they were nothing. And this is where we stop and focus on the victims, because these women are not just part of a case file. They are the reason that we are here. Rex Hewerman has admitted to the murders of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, Amberlynn Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack, Sandra Castilla, and Karen Vergata. Each one of these women had people who loved them. Families who never stopped looking and never stopped asking questions, even when it felt like no one was listening. They were not invisible, they were made invisible. And maybe the most unsettling part of all this is how ordinary it all looked from the outside. While these women were missing, while families were begging for answers, while bodies were being discovered along a stretch of beach that would become infamous, Rex Hewerman was going about his daily life completely unaffected. Going to work, coming home for dinner, vacations with his family, sleeping in his own bed next to his wife, living a completely normal, unbothered life while hiding something absolutely monstrous. Rex Hewerman is now facing multiple life sentences without the possibility of parole. But even with a conviction, there are still questions about the full scope of his crimes, about potential additional victims, and about how something like this went undetected for so long. Because at the end of the day, this was not somebody who was hiding in the shadows. This was someone going to work, talking to neighbors, living a completely ordinary life, and somehow getting away with something unspeakable for decades.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Obviously, you listed their names and our thoughts go out to all of their families. Absolutely. Um, but I am glad for them that they now have some closure and some justice.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

And we also think about all of those that haven't been found yet that maybe he was responsible for and the family's still looking for them.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yes, absolutely. So yeah, it's just terrific. I mean, and this will be known for decades and disc decades. Like this is something that goes down in history. That area will forever be known and burning to their tourist industry.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Oh, for sure. I bet. I mean, I bet there will be a movie one day.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Oh, yeah, there will definitely be a movie. And as a part of his plea deal, he is required to work with like forensic psychologists and stuff so that they can take a look at his psyche and try to figure out like what makes a serial killer, like what is wrong with you people? And I mean, I'm glad we need to figure this out and hopefully prevent these things. Oh, yeah. You do? Yeah, I do. I don't think that it's something you can figure out overnight, but I think that you can definitely glean a lot of information from talking to And then what do you do once you figure it out?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Is there a way to stop it?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Then say, okay, well, these are the signs. Okay. Hey, if you're if your child or if your husband or if your brother or your sister or whatever, if you see these signs, possibly intervene.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

But how many people are gonna think that and intervene with their brother, sister, husband?

SPEAKER_01 32:02

All we can do is educate people, you know. We can't control what people do, but with at least if we educate people, then we've done what we could do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

But for instance, his wife.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

I mean, I don't think I think that his wife was useless and awful. So I don't think that it would have made a difference.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

And if these serial killers pick wives that are mainly maybe their IQ isn't that high, maybe they're very submissive. They're picking people like that because they know that that's what they they can't they can't be married to you or me. We're gonna we're gonna figure that shit out. So if they're marrying people or living a life with people that they've specifically picked that they know that they can pull the wool over their eyes, I don't think those are the type of people you can educate to.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Well, his wife's not the only one in his life. I mean, you have his parents, which of course his parents were not the greatest, but you also have friends and other family. And actually, there was one classmate that they interviewed um that said that there were signs that like something was wrong with him. He was like completely antisocial. And I'm not saying that being antisocial means you're a serial killer, but again, you put that piece of the puzzle and then these other pieces of the pieces of the puzzle together, and maybe you've got something there. And maybe let's get this person in therapy and maybe monitor this person. I mean, I'm not a professional. I'm just saying. You're not? No. I'm just saying let's look at the root of the problem of these serial killers. And I think it's probably a mixture of things. I think some people are actually just born evil, but then you have some people who've had like head injuries who go batshit. So it's literally a physical thing that caused it. And then you have people who were raised in extreme trauma.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, they were shown extreme violence and it's all they know. So there's more than one reason why somebody may turn out to be like that. I just think that the further we go forward in time, the more we learn about them, and hopefully the better educated everybody gets about them, and the hopefully the easier it is to stop them. But at the same time, as technology has grown and the internet became a thing and social media became a thing, it stepped up because it gave them more ways to contact victims and to lure victims. So at the same time that you've got technology getting better to help solve the problem, you've got technology getting better to help the murderers too.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, absolutely. Technology is a double-edged sword. It's like there's a camera on every corner now. Like all of your devices are being monitored at all times. But you can go on what's that app? Uh, I don't date, where you swipe, swipe, swipe Tinder. Yeah, you can go on Tinder and if you're a serial killer, just swipe, swipe, swipe, and in five minutes you've got a victim if that's what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Because there are plenty of people that are on there just for a hookup and they go and do things that put that makes them vulnerable. I actually have a friend who told me this story, and I was like, Are you fucking crazy? But um she, this is a female, she was like, Oh my god, I had this really exciting encounter and I want to tell you all about it. And I was like, What happened? And she said, Well, basically, I met this guy online and it was just for a sexual hookup, and he bought a hotel room, and I had to go there ahead of him, blindfold myself, um, handcuff myself to the bed, and he just came in and had sex with me and left. And she was like, It was so exciting. And I was like, Are you fucking insane? And to her that was thrilling. I'm sweet. I'm so there, but what I'm saying is you and I wouldn't do it, but there are people out there that think that that's exciting. And those are the people that are just asking to be murdered. Those are the people that the p serial killers are looking for on Tinder. They're like, hell yeah, go in there and get yourself ready, and then I don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Does this friend listen to this podcast? Because I just want to tell her, like, girl, you need to be careful. Stop doing that.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

She it was years and years ago that she did it, and I don't think that she's done it since. And she may listen. You know who you are, you crazy bitch.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

I'm I'm worried about you. Please don't do that. Um, she didn't do that stuff anymore. And if you like that, okay, do it, but do it with somebody you trust. Don't do it with a stranger, please. For the love of God. She never even saw his face. And what if he'd had sexually transmitted diseases?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Like HIV. You can't go back from that.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

That's part I guess that's part of the thrill. I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I can't I can't speak for people that do things I wouldn't do. Y'all are giving me anxiety. I think that's probably where we stop this. I do have a lot to say about ASA, but we got we got a whole after show to record. So on that note.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

On that note, it's gonna be a really great after show, you guys. If you're not a subscriber, you can subscribe for just $4 a month. It helps us out. It helps us keep bringing you these stories. If you're not a subscriber, we'll still be back next week with what's next week? Uh, the staircase. Ooh, the staircase. Okay, well, we'll see you guys next week for the staircase. And until then, be divas. Not deadly and not doing things like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Bye.