Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

Episode 25: After Show

Subscriber Episode Sarah Akins & Tina Hart Season 1 Episode 25

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In this subscribers only episode we dig deeper on what attracts these women to Drew, younger women specifically.  Join us as we discuss this case in more detail.

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SPEAKER_00

Hey, Deadly Divas. And dudes. This is the Drew Peterson after show, or as I abbreviated it to in the recording studio, ass.

SPEAKER_01

He and he is indeed an ass. Yeah. In fact, that might be giving asses a bad name.

SPEAKER_00

As in AS standing for aftershows. But there we go. All right. Shall I start with mine? Go for it. So my number one question, as I said at the end of the other one, is why are such young women attracted to a man so much older with a missing and a dead wife and multiple children?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that definitely there's some mental instability there, some lack of issues? Definitely could be daddy issues, lack of self-worth, you know, self-esteem issues. Also, he has a huge fucking ego. So he obviously tries really hard to impress them. And he's probably saying things like, Oh, I worked secret service at the White House, which is not young enough to believe shit. Right. They're young and naive enough, and they're like, wow, really impressed by him. And he also has that alpha male persona. And so maybe that makes them feel like, oh, he'll protect me. And he's manipulative as fuck. He is. He's manipulative as fuck. And he's charming. And all of these fucking losers, like just I think charming is relevant.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I would ever, on my worst day, ever, find him charming. So I think a lot of people refer to him as charming, but I think charming is very much a person-to-person thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because there's nothing charming that I see, but obviously he got away with things and he attracts all these women. So like there's something there for some people.

SPEAKER_00

Now, when we say daddy-ish issues, do you take that as somebody that didn't have a dad in their life? So they're seeking a father, or do you take that as somebody that was a daddy's girl and they're replacing their father?

SPEAKER_01

It could definitely go either way, but I feel like the first one is probably more detrimental to not have a father at all.

SPEAKER_00

I have no idea who my biological father was, but I don't believe I have any kind of daddy issue whatsoever. And you don't want to fucking Drew Peterson. Absolutely fucking not in my worst nightmare. I had a very an awesome stepdad who married my mom when I was eight. But you could say that I could have maybe have grown up with daddy issues as a result. Right. I didn't know who my biological father was, and my first stepdad was only married to my mom for a year when I was young. So you could say that with that start, I could have possibly had daddy issues, but I've always been the alpha one in every relationship I've had. So I think I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the fact that you did eventually have a stable father figure come in that you had a good relationship probably helped, yeah. Helped a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But to me, I always think when I hear daddy issues, I think of those girls that are just like up daddy's butt, you know, they can do no wrong in daddy's eyes. And it's great to have a father-daughter relationship like that. Maybe it's just the extreme, like like Mackenzie Shrill has done. So they can literally do no wrong whatsoever, their daddy's little angel. Yeah. And then therefore they expect every man to treat them that way. And then along comes somebody like Drew Peterson, who's a piece of shit, but you don't notice because he treats you like his little angel. So I always interpret it that way because of my past. Like I wasn't the apple of my biological father's eye from the minute I was born. Like and and there's been times in my life when I'm like, oh, that must have been so nice. I wonder how that would have felt like, or whatever. Um, I also only had boys myself, so I never got to see that with their father for them to be like daddy's little girl. So I always immediately jumped to the assumption that it's a girl that was spoiled by daddy. And so therefore she's looking for a fatherly figure that will just spoil her through her adult life.

SPEAKER_01

I and I and that's uh definitely something that that happens, but I don't think that those are the kind of girls that were attracted to Drew. I think they more either had absent fathers or unstable father relationships and they were hoping to use him to heal that wound, not knowing that he was just a vile, awful piece of garbage.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, we know that one of the girls that he met after Stacy disappeared had a weird relationship with her dad because one she was in the bar with her. Right. Now, I'm not saying I've never been in the bar with my dad, the person I call my dad, but I'd never pick up guys in the bar with my dad. So that's a weird dynamic. And then the fact that the more he pushed her not to date Drew, the more she wanted to. There was definitely some daddy-daughter issues in that relationship.

SPEAKER_01

But I do want to give him credit because he did try to step in multiple times.

SPEAKER_00

Because he had his eyes open and he saw the red flags that she chose to ignore.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I mean, some parents, like if he was truly a father that just didn't give a fuck, like he wouldn't have wasted his time. He would have been like, oh yeah, go date him. Get the fuck away from me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he can pay for your shit now. Right. Yeah, he obviously didn't give a shit, but there was obviously not the I hate to say typical father-daughter relationship because nobody's typical.

SPEAKER_01

If you have a generally like healthy upbringing and relationship with your parents, if you've somehow managed to make it through this world mostly unscathed, as a woman, you don't go for a type like Drew Peterson. You just don't. So there's obviously something, there's some kind of wound, there's some kind of mental instability, something with these women, whether it's father issues or self-esteem.

SPEAKER_00

And I have nothing against age gaps when they're appropriate. So, like for instance, if you're 35 and you date a 45-year-old, you're pretty much on the same plane in life. But when you're 46 dating a 16-year-old, that's a crime. And that's disgusting. That is the kind of age gap that's not appropriate in any way, shape, or form. And the girl can say, Oh, it doesn't bother me because she's 16.

SPEAKER_01

Because she's 16 and she has no fucking clue what is going on, and there's an unbalanced power dynamic there. You literally have no idea the implications of this relationship and what it's gonna do to you. So even if you're like, oh, it's fine. No, I like him, it it doesn't matter. Let's ask you in 10 years, if you live what how you feel.

SPEAKER_00

Or at 16, maybe it should be a fling. Get it out of your system. Oh, this 46-year-old is so interested in me. It's such a adrenaline rush. Yeah. Maybe have a fling for a week, but don't marry him.

SPEAKER_01

Have kids with him. Don't even do that because any man that is that age that is interested in a girl that age is predator, yeah, is scum. There that's it. He's scum. Okay. I don't want to hear any fucking excuses.

SPEAKER_00

So we went through why they're attracted to men that much older. Who would be attracted to somebody who's on trial for murdering one wife and whose other wife has disappeared? I would see that as a safety issue. That's a big fucking safety issue. Right? Huge safety issue. Even if you look like Jason frickin' Momoa and you are interested in me, if you're on trial for murdering one wife and the other one's missing, that's that's enough. I'm gone.

SPEAKER_01

I think that what that is is internalized misogyny, because a lot of women hate women and hate themselves and they don't even know it. But the they'll be like, oh, he didn't murder her. And even if he did, she probably deserved it. I can be a much better wife or girlfriend than her.

SPEAKER_00

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy, and it may be like a completely subconscious thought. Like they may not even know that they feel this way, but that's how internalized misogyny works. Like you hate women and you hate yourself, and like you really aren't even aware of it, but then you make decisions like this. This way, these women need mental help. They do, they do, and I hope they get it, and I hope that they develop self-esteem and know that they deserve so much better. Yeah. But who was the one that knew he had murdered and kept it to herself? So it's hearsay.

SPEAKER_00

Stacy's not here to say, Okay, that's true. That's true. Told me I know for sure. No, whatever. So Stacy got a divorce lawyer, and the lawyer was interviewed, and the lawyer said Stacy told me that she lied about the night Kathleen was killed. Oh, right, right. You're right. She went to a pastor and said, Look, I know that he killed Kathleen. I was his alibi, I lied for him, blah, blah, blah. The pastor said that. So it is secondhand information, and Stacy's not here to confirm whether or not she had that conversation with him. But then the lawyer said that she also told him that she knew that he had killed Kathleen. And she asked the lawyer, Do you think I can get a better deal in the divorce if I say that I know this? And that could be taken either way. It could be, I do know this, so can I get a better deal in the divorce if I'm truthful? Or it could have been, hey, if I say this, can I get a better deal in the divorce, whether it's true or not?

SPEAKER_01

Either way, it's profiting off of somebody's uh murder.

SPEAKER_00

Agreed. And it's horrible. And going back to the young women that are still attracted to him after his oil, Stacy must have still been attracted to him after she knew that he had done that to Kathleen. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And that wasn't right.

SPEAKER_01

No. And that just goes to show what I said. Like you have to have some kind of emotional problem to even be attracted to a man like that.

SPEAKER_00

Although in Stacy's defense, she's only 16 when she marries him, and four years later she's got four kids. She's still only 20, right? And he's 50.

SPEAKER_01

Where were her parents? And how did she even end up at 16 with this fucking piece of shit?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm trying to understand Stacy's not going to the police about it. So say she was 20 at the time, and uh she's tied down with him now, she's married to him, because Kathleen died after they got married, saying, Yeah, they got married, and she's now got four kids that she's responsible for, and she's still literally a child.

SPEAKER_01

And I get that, but if you know that he murdered somebody, and it's your responsibility to keep your kids safe too. And just they're not safe in that environment, and neither are you.

SPEAKER_00

Obviously, she's missing. There's no way that she runs off with somebody and leaves four kids, even at 12.

SPEAKER_01

It's ridiculous. It's like I said, this is the excuse that a lot of people who murder their spouses say. It's like, oh, they met a new man or a new woman and they went off to the Caribbean or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Because not only does it give an excuse for them not being there anymore, it gives an excuse for them a not keeping in touch and b makes you look like the injured party.

SPEAKER_01

Right, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So that brings me to my second point. So he is out on bail, he is on trial for the murder of Kathleen. Stacy is still missing, and he's dating two different youngsters. I don't know if they were teenagers. I can't I can't say that for sure. Who the fuck is looking after the four children?

SPEAKER_01

Right. Who? I have no idea. I'm sure that he's got some relative that he has pawned them off on that he's filled their head full of shoes.

SPEAKER_00

Or some babysitter is fucking.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, or some babysitter he's fucking, or another woman that he's got lined up that's like, oh, I have all these kids and they really need a mother figure. And my last 17 wives were pieces of shit. They were all crazy.

SPEAKER_00

And they all mysteriously disappeared. All 47. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I have to wonder. He's in bars picking up girls. They're not at home with mom because she's missing. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_01

Where are the children? That's a great question. I think he's probably the type that would dump them off wherever as long as he didn't have to deal with them. Well, he's definitely parent of the year, so Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

All right, my next one. Do you think if he had not been a police officer, Kathleen's death would have been looked at more closely when it happened? Almost certainly. Because all the stuff they come up with in the trial, like there was no blood near the bath, there was a laceration on her head, there's no sharp edges in the bathroom. How were these not brought up in the first place?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's that unspoken bro code. Police bro code. Yeah, where you protect each other. Because I mean, let's just be honest, not every police officer but a lot of police officers are attracted to that type of work because it gives them this power that they seek to abuse. So when you have let's say seven out of ten who hate women, they're probably abusing their wives. And they'd probably kill their wife if they thought they could get away with it. And one of their buddies, her his wife shows up dead. Well, he's a good guy. We like him. He'll cover for us if anything ever comes up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because you're thinking when the body was discovered, who's the first people who call the police? Exactly. And so the first people on scene making all the notes are your buddies. Are your buddies? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it's such a shame for the good cops out there. It is.

SPEAKER_01

It really is. And I was talking to uh my hairstylist yesterday, because her daughter is like like us, where we're like super nosy and we like true crime. And I was like, you need to get her to become an FBI profiler or a private investigator or something. And she was like, Oh, she would be so good at that, but she thinks that cops are just so corrupt that she could never do it. And I think it does deter so many people, which is sad because we need people to join who have integrity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then also I've put, do you think that Stacy would have been interviewed alone about his alibi if he hadn't have been a cop? In which case they probably could have got it out of her. Yeah. But I don't think his buddies don't have any interest in interviewing her to get a different alibi.

SPEAKER_01

No, they don't have any interest. They don't care what she has to say. She needs to say exactly what he's instructed her to say.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. If the police take me in for questioning and I'm like, I don't want to be questioned alone, they're gonna go, no one can't. Too fucking bad.

SPEAKER_01

You're an adult. No one cares. Do this, or we're holding you for contempt. Right. I don't have a choice. Right. I want my mommy there. Yeah, right. My mom flies over from England. Like Scott Peterson, who's like, I can't take the lie detector, you guys, because my dad said I can't do it. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, here's your bottle and your diaper chain. Fucking pathetic. That's my after show notes. I guess I covered most of my stuff in the episode. So you hit it.

SPEAKER_01

All right. So the sister-in-law's phone call into the radio show. And we just listened to this and it was nuts. So Stacy's sister, Cassandra Kales, she called into one of the radio shows that Drew did because he did a media tour. He was, yeah, literally on a media tour as if he was some celebrity. Written a book. Right. So he's on this radio show one day, and Stacey's sister calls in, and she is literally pretty much threatening him and just giving him the fucking business on this race. But wouldn't you too? Yeah, I would. Absolutely. She literally says, Your days are numbered. What did you do to my sister? You killed her after she got off the phone. And what she's referring to here is the morning that she went missing, she was talking to a friend. She was on the phone. And this friend told the sister, Oh, I talked to her at this time and then never again. Well, that morning, Drew says that he was in the bed around that time. But uh he was not because the friend said, No, I was on the phone with Stacy, and Stacy said he was not there. And when Stacy got off the phone with this friend, that was the last time anybody ever heard from her. And the timeline lines up that he killed her right after that phone call. So that's what she's talking about when she said you killed her after she got off the phone. She also says, You will pay. I know what happened, and so do the police. So does Drew. She says, His days are numbered. It's coming soon. So watch your back, Drew. And it was like powerful. Like you could feel her passion. Like she knows this man murdered her sister, and she wants not just justice, but like vengeance.

SPEAKER_00

And I get that they're pleased that he's been convicted of something. But how frustrating would it be to know? All right, now you've proved that he killed wife number three. My sister's still missing. And obviously he killed her too. Right. But he's not gonna get a trial or convicted of that while they can't find a body.

SPEAKER_01

So speaking of which, Stacy's sister has actually went and bought her own sonar technology. And she has been using it on, you know, various bodies of water in the local area. And she thinks that she has found possible human remains using that sonar at the bottom of the Illinois canal. But she obviously can't go down and dive. Like she doesn't have the resources to do that. So she's been trying to work with like local authorities to see if they can retrieve these remains. Because either A, it's her sister, or B, it's somebody else's remains. And don't you guys want to know who the hell this is?

SPEAKER_00

So you would hope that the police would want to know who it was and that they would show up. But if not, and I'm her sister, I'm probably hiring a pilot diver. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. There that must be so expensive though. I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_00

But So was the sonar equipment, but she's obviously committed. And I would be literally keeping me awake at night thinking about those remains down there.

SPEAKER_01

It would. But then even then, if say you do go down and see that it is human remains, like how can you even retrieve that and keep it intact? Like, so that it can be tested once you bring it up out of the water. Like, there's no telling how much which is why the police should have the forensic team.

SPEAKER_00

They should. But if they're not going to, it would I'd take a fucking Ziploc bag and it would be better than those gigantic ones that I got of the bid each.

SPEAKER_01

Worst case scenario, though, is that you ruin it or compromise the integrity and they can't figure out or it it fucks it up.

SPEAKER_00

So maybe they can't figure out how that person died, but they would be able to get DNA to let you know if it was your sister or not. And then number one, you have closure, and number two, you have a body where you can start to try the man that killed her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I still wouldn't do it though. I would definitely leave it to the police because What if the police are just absolutely not gonna do it? Well, because then they're gonna say, Well, we don't know where you got this, and we don't know this, and we don't know that, or they could simply fucking refuse. They are his buddies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then, yeah, I guess videotape themselves getting it, so you've got proof for it.

SPEAKER_01

But you can still switch it out or or whatever. That's why I'm saying, like, it would need to be something that is meticulously documented by legal professionals. In an ideal world, I agree. But if they're not gonna get it. And then what if it's somebody else's remains and somebody else's long lost sister or then they get their answers and you go one way or the other, but you're not gonna be able to do that. You can't do a DNA test on a skull. Like a professional has to do that. Well, yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's why all of this needs to be done by a professional. Like start to finish. But anyway, hopefully the police or somebody, the FBI, like So sorry, thinking it through.

SPEAKER_00

I guess if the police just absolutely refuse to do it, you could probably as an individual go to the court and try and get an injunction or something where they're forced to do it? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01

You've got to have some kind of rights like I mean in a perfect world you you have legal recourse, but in a perfect world the police want to go down there and do it to figure out who's dead at the bottom of the lake. Right. That would be recourse. But like obviously there's corruption or he wouldn't have gotten away with the first murder. So I I don't think that the police force is is motivated to do it because I think that they've wanted to cover up for him and I don't think that they want to look bad. True.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway, um I thought that was very interesting and I appreciate the sister's tenacity like I feel her frustration because if she went out spent money on a boat she spent money on a sonar kit she spent goodness knows how many days, weeks months doing this, she finally gets a result and nothing comes of it.

SPEAKER_01

Not not as yet no and she'd be like what fucking I know but I want her to get closure. I I hope that something comes of it even if it's not her sister it's somebody.

SPEAKER_00

I want her to get closure and I want him to get misery tried for it was what I was going to say but misery works.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So speaking of like all his stupid media bullshit to close off on a lighter topic he went on so many radio shows, did so many media appearances and in one of those he was like we should do a win a conjugal visit with Drew Peterson segment literally makes me want to barf. And like number one it's it's disgusting it's inappropriate it's disrespectful but it just shows you he doesn't take any of this at all seriously like people are dead people are missing the mother of your children and you're talking about conjugal visits with random women yeah and it's what's even sicker is women would sign up for it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah and they have and he he has no shortage of women they they should let women sign up for it and then send them all for a psych evaluator. Right, right. I don't even know what to say to that there's so many things wrong in that like people in prison shouldn't be able to do anything like that. I bet there's girls that find it thrilling to have sex with a prisoner and a murderer.

SPEAKER_01

I mean I just I hadn't even considered that that they like it. You know what I was talking to my friend about Gilgo's wife and how she remodeled the basement that was his torture room and sleeps in there every night. And my take on that is that she just you know has mental problems and you know she obviously is really fucked up and making bad decisions and I can't reconcile it. But I was just like well obviously she just doesn't care about the victims and she only cares about herself. Well my friend was like oh is that what you think because I think that she was complicit and she was part of it and she liked it and that's why she sleeps down there and I think that she relives it. And I said no way. See stuff like that doesn't cross my mind. Because we don't want to think that of women. No you expect it out of the men. You don't expect it out of the women but anyway what was the point what were you talking about?

SPEAKER_00

How did I connect those dots when I was saying that I I regardless of whether or not it was Drew Peterson there are probably women that would get off on just having sex one inside a prison two with a prisoner three with a murderer. And it would be it would be the thrill of yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well I don't know what I'm repulsed by that. So I can't imagine it being thrilling.

SPEAKER_00

Like people saying that having sex in public's thrilling because you could get caught any minute having sex with a murderer you could get killed any minute I guess it sort of amps up the danger aspect to make it more thrilling.

SPEAKER_01

See now when I hear about people like this I'm like I'm totally normal and I'm doing great I'm doing well in life. Good with my normal tea wow yeah that's right the only other thing that I had was just his smirk and his mugshot and which uh he's always smirking. He always thinks he's the smartest one in the room. He always thinks he can get away with anything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah the smirk says I'm untouchable.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm because he's a cop and for a minute that was true. Not anymore.

SPEAKER_00

He had your back till you tried to do it again you dumbass.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And that's the thing just like with uh the other Peterson Michael Peterson he said you do something once you get away with it you just keep getting away with it and it just is what it is.

SPEAKER_00

Nobody caught me the first time why would they catch me the second time? Because now it's a pattern dumbass.

SPEAKER_01

Right you just keep getting away with it.

SPEAKER_00

No you don't no now you're gonna get the double whammy because we're gonna look at you more closely this time and dig up the last one. So the moral of this story is don't kill anybody.

SPEAKER_01

Don't kill anybody and ladies if you start dating a guy with the last name Peterson like don't immediately write him off but maybe do a background check.

SPEAKER_00

And don't start trying to date people in jail. For God's sake or winning conjugal visits with them.

SPEAKER_01

No no if somebody's in prison 90% of the time 92% of the time they are in there because it is where they belong. And you don't need any any part of it life's hard enough as it is that's right.

SPEAKER_00

Don't bring that chaos in they'll still be then though what do we call that in the mage survival of the That's when people were swimming with the red flag we're like red flag alert and they're still swimming and we're like well that's natural selection for you.

SPEAKER_01

It is and I saw uh somebody that I follow on Facebook she saw people out there swimming with the red flags and two people drowned. So it's not worth your life it's not worth your kids' lives.

SPEAKER_00

It makes me so uncomfortable because we see the people swimming out there and half of you wants to go over there and go, do you understand what a red flag means? But on the same time you're on vacation, they're on vacation you don't want to be that person. And you're not going to risk your own life. And if and if they made that choice knowing it but then at the same time if you realize later that one of one of those people drowned then you start to feel guilty that you didn't so don't put me in that position when I'm on vacation.

SPEAKER_01

Don't swim in a red flag.

SPEAKER_00

I'll swim on a red but yeah so natural selection I'm thinking maybe maybe the women that win the conjugal present. Ugh no they probably get pregnant and reproduce.

SPEAKER_01

It's like the women who think that Vladimir Putin is so attractive which I don't get at all. I don't even think that he's physically attractive but even if I did think he was physically attractive just knowing the atrocities that he has committed just completely repels me.

SPEAKER_00

But I think that brains are attracted to brains like if you're intelligent then you look at somebody's brain not just their physique. Yeah. Whereas if you're of a lesser intelligence then it's more physical I don't know that's just a theory. You get what I'm getting yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean obviously you're not using your thinking cap if you're going after a man who has murdered multiple wives. Put your thinking cap on. Unless you're suicidal and there's far easier ways to there's easier and much less painful ways to go. Not that we're encouraging suicide don't I don't think there's anything else we can say about this. I don't think so I think that I'm ready and I'm glad that we are done with the Peterson trifecta because they were all three just horrible horrible men.

SPEAKER_00

So let's put the Petersons to bed bury them in their graves whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Until the next Peterson there's people whose name should be Peterson I'm sure we said Morphe should be a Peterson shouldn't he Morphew should be a Peterson Barry Morphew you guys I recorded him earlier today and he's coming out soon. In a couple weeks who knows but uh he fits right along with them he just hasn't been convicted yet. Hopefully come October he will be and if you want to hear more about Barry Morphew and just how fucking horrible he is tune in to that episode.

SPEAKER_00

And if you are one of the lovely Petersons who has the name Peterson and is absolutely a fantastic person we love you.

SPEAKER_01

No shade okay that's it until next time B Divas not deadly goodbye