Episode 31: After Show

Listen in as we discuss the details of this case further and tell you what we really think!

Don't forget to send us your feedback and ideas for future episode content at contact@deadlydivaspodcast.com!

Transcript

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Hey guys, welcome to the after show for Depraved Heart. Hello, subscribers. So we have a lot to talk about, but let's dive in. I don't think we've ever had so much in an after show- Right to be honest. So the first thing was, like, I didn't realize the age gap was that bad. I knew that he was older, and I knew that he had been, like, watching her since she was a teenager, and that whole creepy stuff. But when you actually said, like, she was 25 and he was 50, I was a little gobsmacked. Like, I was like, wow. Yeah, and I mean, just the whole thing with him having young children of his own and taking his young children to go see her- To go flirt with her work in a toy store while she's dressed as Elsa. Like- So if he had children already, was he previously married? I'm pretty sure that he had been previously married twice. Because if he started ogling her when she was 14, and so he would've been 39, was he married when he was- I don't know obsessing over this teenager and taking his kids? I don't know if he was married at that time or not. I mean- And I wonder what the relationship with his previous wives was like, if he was this controlling with Sarah. Or- That's probably why he was divorced twice, is 'cause he's awful I mean, I mean, it could be, but I'm wondering whether his obsession wasn't just with Sarah, which was why he pursued her for so long, or whether he was just like this with all women. But I get the gut feeling that there was just something about Sarah that in his slimy little mind that he couldn't shake. Yeah, I mean, I think people like that, they have an MO. They kinda go after the same types of women who are perhaps naive, and so he has authority and power over them, and maybe that the two previous wives are the same, or maybe they weren't. And- Or, or maybe he tried to control them, and they left him, and he failed, which is why he opted for so much more control in such a chemical way over Sarah, because he'd experienced women just having enough of his shit and getting up and leaving, and he needed to put her in a situation where that wasn't an option for her. I think that's a good point. Maybe the previous two wives did leave him, and so now he feels like, "Oh, well, I'm keeping this one- Right, right under any circumstances. I'll do anything." Right. How can I make her completely unable to leave? But I mean I don't wanna be mean-spirited person. I generally don't attack people for their appearances. But, like, look at a picture of them, and look at the age gap. Look at where they both were in their lives. Like, do you really think that Sarah was gonna stay with him long term? She was so far out of his league on every level, and he knew that You can't tell me he didn't know that. He looks like a fucking troll that lives under a bridge But I think he wormed his way in with the job and with being the savior during the other family crisises, and that's what maybe made him more attractive, was him being there for the family. I mean, that does endear you to somebody when they're there for your family during crisis situations, right? It does, and it enmeshes you into that family. I mean, you become a part of that family. And, and he knew what he was doing yeah, yeah, looking back, was very controlled and- And like you said during the episode, the prescription for the anxiety medication for the sister is, like, at the time when you are reeling, like, that anxiety medication is a miracle for you. Right. But looking back, it's like, that's a big red flag. Was not appropriate. And, yeah. Yeah, was not appropriate. A dentist prescribes Valium to put you at ease when you're having wisdom teeth extracted. Mm-hmm. He does not prescribe Valium for depression and anxiety, and those mental conditions are so very fragile that those kind of medications need to be under supervision of a medical professional that deals with anxiety and depression, not pulling freaking wisdom teeth. Exactly, and this, I think, goes into another point that I wanted to make, or a couple more points. So one, it shows how kind of free and loose he was, just giving this medication out like it was M&Ms. And also, how was he able to do all this and go completely unchecked? I mean, there's a few things. So his claim when the cops came on the day that she passed was, "Oh, she's been stealing medications from my practice," and the cops seemed to just kinda go with that at first. But in the body cam footage and the pictures, you can see that it looked like a rogue operating room. Like, there were IVs everywhere, and drugs, and bloody paper towels, and all this stuff, and you're telling me that the cops didn't think that was odd and contradicted him? Right, like, she's stealing medications from you, and it went unnoticed to you, the state of your own home? Mm-hmm. But also, I mean, what I have down here is another question. She's 83 pounds. She's slurring her words. She's basically in a sedative state 90% of the time. Was she even going to work in the office in that condition? Right, and if she wasn't, how is she stealing drugs? Right, exactly. That's a really good point. How in the world... If you're sedated 24/7, you can't even get up. You can't- I don't believe she was going to work at that point Yeah, there's no way. And so if she wasn't going to work, how was she stealing the medication? Exactly. That's what I'm saying the picture we have painted of her last few weeks makes it sound like she was incapable of going to her job. I think that's realistic to say. Yeah, she was completely incapacitated. Right. So she wouldn't have remained completely incapacitated if she was no longer taking the drugs. She would've been in some kind of withdrawal. So if she's not going into the office every day to steal them, but she's remaining in that sedative condition, how is she getting them, James? How? Exactly. Completely contradicts everything that he said. But I just wanna go back to, how did this man not ever have anybody- Check up on him checking him? Like, were the people at his practice not seeing he was taking these drugs and all of this equipment? I mean, I don't know how medical, practices work, but if he had his own private practice, and remember, it's a dentist, not a doctor. Yeah. I, I don't know, but my assumption is, is that they're not as tightly monitored maybe. Um- Well, they should be- Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm wrong if they're not. Maybe I'm wrong. But- I'm thinking that if he owned the practice, he had no one to answer to And he should, and that was another point that I wanted to get to. If that was the case, I'm not sure if, if he actually owned this practice or not, but even if you do own the practice, there needs to be another person keeping you in check where these drugs are concerned. Like, you should not be able to take a s- powerful sedative like propofol home with you every day just like it's ibuprofen. Right. Like, that is a problem. Yeah. I'm just thinking if he owned the practice and he had somebody in charge of signing drugs in and out, you're not gonna say to your boss, "No, I'm not signing that out to you." Are you? I would report it, though. He writes your paycheck. Yeah. I would report it 100%. I would. But, but that's a sticky situation for that person. Yeah. He signs your paychecks, and you trust him 'cause he's the doctor, which is the whole point here. Yeah, but I personally would be putting two and two together here, like, "Hmm, I haven't seen Sarah in a while, and she works here, and he's taking all these crazy drugs home with him. Is Sarah okay? What's going on? What is he using these medications for?" I mean, that to me would be painting a picture, and I would be alarmed. But I mean, I do get it. Like, he's your boss, he's your doctor. That is, again, that power imbalance. But you believe what they say. So maybe he says, "I've partnered with Jimmy down the street and his dental practice, and they're out of propofol this week, so I said that I'd take some over there." I mean, who knows what story. 'Cause he's full of shit, right? Yeah. I mean, he's full of shit. And he's your boss, so you're not gonna question necessarily. And he could say, "Oh, Sarah took a leave of absence because her brother passed away, and she's depressed, and so I told her not to come in till she feels up to it." I mean, it's not necessarily gonna be as obvious as putting two and two together when he's coming out with whatever it is that he's coming out with, and he's, one, your boss, and two, the doctor. You're absolutely right. I hadn't even considered that. Do you know why? Because I'm not a lying scumbag piece of shit. Well, I did consider it because I No, that's not what I mean. I'm just thinking of possibilities and how, you know, we're making assumptions that somebody at the office could have put two and two together had they had information A and information B. But he could have given them information C and D. I mean, and w- do you question your boss who's the doctor with the medical degree when you're maybe, you know, $15 an hour secretary? Or it's just- Yeah until you're in that situation, not really something you can- You just show me often how naive I am. Like, I, I mean, I'm a very jaded person, like extremely, but just I didn't even consider, like obviously he's telling everybody around him lies- Bullshit because that's what he does. That's what he does. I just assume that everybody's honest. Whatever. Anyway. Oh, he definitely isn't. He definitely isn't. I'll tell you that much. And then I put down here motive, question mark, and I think we kind of covered it in the beginning. That's my theory. 'Cause at first I was like, what is his motive here? Not to kill her, because I don't believe that was his end game. His endgame to me was to keep her totally 100% dependent on him and with him. I believe that was his motive, not to eventually kill her. Although I do believe that he's guilty of murder, because he did kill her, but I'm saying that I don't believe that that was his endgame. I agree 100%. So what was his motive for keeping her in that state? And I think it has to come back to his obsession with her from a very young age, and I believe it must have something to do with previous relationships and other women getting out from his nasty claws, and him trying to figure out how to make this one stick. I agree. I don't think that he wanted to kill her. I think that he was devastated by her death. In the body cam footage from the day of her death, he is sobbing, like uncontrollably. You can tell that he is severely impacted. Well, he was delusional, because he's a doctor and he could see her physical condition. That's the thing is, like, he knew what was coming, but he was willing to go that far to not lose her, and it's so ironic, because he did it because he didn't wanna lose her. But in the end, she's gone. He lost her forever. She is no longer on this earth. And it's his damn fault. It is. It's his fault. But no, I think that he was devastated by her death, but it was still his fault and he's still a scumbag. I mean, he was a doctor and he knew what he was doing. He abused her. Mm-hmm. 100%. All right, let's go through some of yours now. So her long-distance ex-boyfriend, did you know about him? Remind me. Okay. So she had dated someone for quite a while before Dr. James Ryan. They ended up becoming long-distance. I don't know if maybe he moved somewhere for a job or school or something. But once they became long-distance, it ended up not working out. The distance was too much of a challenge. And she was really heartbroken over it. She didn't want it to end. They just couldn't make it work. And very shortly after that ended, and she was still heartbroken over it- Is when Dr. James Ryan started inserting himself into her life When she was vulnerable When she was vulnerable. And, um- And rebounded probably R- exactly. So, and that was another vulnerability that she had. It wasn't just the age gap. It wasn't just the doctor-patient dynamic. Um, it wasn't just the, the financial stuff. It was also, she had just been through a breakup, and she was probably just looking for some kinda, some small little crumb of, like, joy or support or something. A- and probably the attention. Like, if the love of your life moved away and, and it crumbled, and you're probably feeling deserted- Mm-hmm and so therefore, somebody lavishing you with affection, he feels like a love bomb inbound. He was... Yeah, he did love bomb her. He bought her a luxury car, um, like a Mercedes or some- or a Range Rover or something like that. And would that feel good? Yeah. Especially right after a breakup, of course that's gonna feel good. But another facet to this ex-boyfriend that interested me was shortly before her death, either, like, a few weeks or a couple months before her death, she had called this ex-boyfriend, and he was, like, at work or something, so he couldn't take the call. So she left a voicemail or a voice message, and she said something like You would never let me in enough emotionally. Just saying all these problems that she'd had with the relationship, but also expressing a yearning that she wanted it to work and she wanted him to do these things so that they could still be together. So clearly she was not over this guy, and maybe Dr. James Ryan knew that, and that's one of the reasons that he kept her sedated, was to keep her away from this guy. Because if he's like any other controlling, abusive man out there, he was going through her phone and her laptop constantly, and maybe he saw some conversations that he didn't like. Yeah, I felt like he was also, trying to keep her away from her sister and her mother and everything as well, to maintain that control so that people weren't saying like, "Hey, Sarah, you know, this isn't right. You need to, you need to separate yourself. You need to move out." Um. Another big question mark here for me when I first learned of this case was sister, who actually witnessed this deterioration and witnessed the house and the scene and saw all of, I mean, this nightmare, what they described as literal hell. Why did they not call the authorities? Why did they not put a stop to this? And I've thought about it a lot, and the mother did say that the second time they went in and saw the house like that, that she spoke to him and gave him an ultimatum. Either, A, you break up with my daughter, or B, I am going to report you to the authorities And just shortly after that, her son died, and they were dealing with all of that. And then just 18 days after that, Sarah died. So I don't necessarily think that it was negligence on their part. I do think that they were trying, and they were just living a nightmare. I mean, I was surprised at the time that you said that her sister went over and didn't even see her sister before leaving. If I'd have walked into that kind of... I get it's shocking and you wanna leave, but I would be desperately searching for my sister to make sure that she's okay, and I can't imagine not wanting to be like, "Get your shit, we're leaving." We're leaving. If I have to drag- Right if I have to physically drag you out, I will. And I'm sure that the mom now regrets giving him the ultimatum, and didn't just go ahead and go to the authorities, but giving him the chance to, to bow out gracefully. But he had established that previous trust, and, um, being there for them and supportive of the family, that must have been hard for her to separate from what was, what she was seeing in front of her. Like, he had our family's best interests at heart during A, B, and C. I can't believe that he doesn't right now, so I'll give him the chance. And, and that poor mother has got to be like, "Why didn't I do something that day?" Yeah. Um- Guilt, I'm sure, just crushes her every day. But that's cognitive dissonance, where, like, your, your brain cannot make these two things true at once. So she chose to believe, oh, he's helpful. He's a nice guy. Look at all of these things- Right that he's done for us. He'll do, he'll do the right thing. Yeah. Right. Uh, but I just can't imagine that second visit with the sister that, uh, personally, I wouldn't have made sure that I'd have seen her at the very least, and probably been like, "I am not leaving here without you." I do wonder if maybe with the sister, because she was the one that had her fiance- Mm-hmm commit suicide in front of her. Mm-hmm. I wonder if this triggered something in her. Possibly, yeah. And she just, she couldn't handle it- Yeah and had to remove herself. That's a good point. Yeah. Um, that would be traumatizing for anybody, but especially who had their fiance commit suicide in front of them. I cannot fathom. And her brother. Yeah, and her brother passed. Like, I think this family just- I mean, they, they weren't equipped to handle it was hanging on by a thread. Right. Yeah. Right. And that's so sad. Oof. So Sarah actually had been to a psychiatrist, and she had been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and bipolar disorder. And, um, why- I think people with bipolar should not be taking this kind of medication that- Yeah, and this was another big question mark for me, because the first documentary that I watched about this was on Toxic on HBO, which is a great series. Mm-hmm. Um, and they kinda left some details out that- bothered me because they kind of portrayed Sarah as perfectly healthy, perfectly vibrant, you know, headed down the right path, and then just all of a sudden she's addicted to these drugs and she dies. And I was like, there's gotta be some stuff here that has been left out. Right. 'Cause that, you don't go from perfect to dead. Like, there's gotta be some other stuff. So I did some more research on it, and I did find that she had been diagnosed with that anxiety, depression, and bipolar. And I hate that he did not encourage her to continue seeing a professional, get on medication, go to therapy, follow an actual doctor's orders, but instead just keep her sedated. That would have been surrendering his control. Mm-hmm. That was never gonna happen. Exactly. Yeah, because if you're gonna get her well and stable, you think she's gonna stay with you? Mm-mm. Hell no, she's not gonna stay with you. Oh, no. You know, he was probably concerned that a psychiatrist would have helped her enough to where she could see that she was in a bad situation and leave it. And the the psychiatrist would have also been like, "Hey, this is not a healthy relationship." Right. "You need to get out." Yeah. And we have no idea the other things that were going We don't know if he was abusing her in other ways, emotionally, physically. Well, when you said that he was injecting her while she was asleep, my mind immediately went to what else is he doing while she's asleep? I was talking to my friend about this. I didn't even consider that. I didn't even consider that. But I was talking to my friend about this, and that was the first thing he said, was that he was almost certainly taking advantage of her sexually. Well, and the reason I come to that conclusion is, one, he's been obsessed with this girl sexually since she was 14. Yeah. So you know that he wanted to have sex with her on a regular basis, and you know that she was in a physical state where she probably had no sex drive- Mm-hmm and had no energy, and didn't want to. And then you think, why would he inject her with ketamine while she's asleep? How is that advantageous to him? Yeah. Uh, because she stays asleep no matter what he does. Those two and two together make it obvious to me that he had a sexual obsession with her. She was probably not physically into it or able to at that state. Right. And why else would he be injecting ketamine in her sleep? Why else? There's literally no reason. There's literally no reason. He didn't need to do it to keep her addicted, because she already was and asking for it. Mm-hmm. The only reason was to make sure she stayed asleep no matter what he did. Right, because- I mean, I'm sorry, I think that's definitely obvious that's a good, that's a good point, because if she's already asleep Why do you need to put her to sleep more and make sure that she stays asleep? And ketamine's for pain. She's not in pain if she's sleeping. Uh-uh. So she didn't need it for anything, and he didn't need it to keep her addicted because she already was. She's texting him saying, "Bring me home some." She's already addicted. He needed it to keep her asleep while he did whatever it was that he wanted to do with this girl he's been obsessed with since she was pubescent. That's just, so disgusting. In fact, my mind even went to, thank goodness her body probably was not able to conceive Mm-hmm otherwise, I bet he would've impregnated her. Yeah, and that's just another way to chain her to him, and- And to keep control. Yeah. But in that state, I doubt her body was in a fit state to conceive. Mm-mm. Other layer, and that would've been for the whole family. Yeah. Ugh. So another thing that I had, and probably the last, 'cause we're already at 24 minutes. Um, you know that propofol was what Michael Jackson overdosed on. Yeah. Well, he had a mix as well. He did. But yeah. He had a mix, but that was the main drug, and that was the main drug that he liked to take. He apparently had a really difficult time sleeping. He just could not sleep, and propofol was the only thing that would get him there. Um, and he also was taking it just at home, you know, in his bedroom, not in a medical setting, not in a hospital, and it is a dangerous, dangerous drug. I was wondering what the, recreational use of propofol would be. If it's an anesthesia, like, does it get people high? But I guess that makes sense. If you cannot sleep, and you're just craving sle- And I have a hard time sleeping, and most sleep medications don't work for me, so I identify with it a little bit. I can't say I would take anesthesia to sleep. Right, right. But what I'm saying is I I know how desperate you can get when it's been days and nothing's working. Um, but my initial thought was what recreational use does propofol have if it doesn't, like, have some kind of high, like a pain medication. But when you mention the Michael Jackson's inability to sleep and how that was what he was using to sleep, I get it. Yeah. And it puts you out in just seconds, just like that. Yeah. So. Ooh, interesting. And I, yeah, like you said, I can see how that would be appealing to somebody who hasn't slept in three or four days. Right, right, 'cause you get to the point where... I don't know if you've ever been like that, but it, it's- It hurts to be awake but it's not like you get more and more tired. You get more and more manic. Mm-hmm. And then it's harder and harder to sleep. And your body feels tired, but your brain and your mind doesn't and isn't in sleep mode, and it is really frustrating. Yeah. Um, yeah, and I, I am one of those people, apparently it's quite common, that has the opposite effect. You give me Benadryl and I'm buzzing. You give me- Benadryl puts me out. Right. You give me Benadryl, I'm buzzing. You give me Ambien and I won't sleep for days. You know? Oh my God, the things that people have done on Ambien. I know. We can do a whole- A whole thing on Ambien, yeah we need to do an episode on Ambien and, and- Just period, yeah crazy things that have happened, but people have committed crimes. Yeah, without even knowing it. Scary. I would never take Ambien, ever. Oh, I hated it because it made me even more wired. Like the harder the sleep drug, the more wired I get, and then the harder it is to sleep. And apparently that's not uncommon. Sleep drugs work for, like, 90% of people but, for 10% of people, it will have the opposite effect. That's horrible. Have you tried THC? Like the legal THC? Yeah, yeah. It doesn't work for you at all? It worked for me very well. No. But I had to stop taking it. Yeah. I tried, with the THC taken out? What's it called? Um, I don't remember, but I was taking whatever that is, whatever the legal is. And I had it, like, in a oil that you dropped under your tongue. Yeah, it works. So everything that does work will work for me for about two weeks, and then I guess my body just gets used to it. So I can find things that will work, but they'll only work short-term. That sucks. Yeah. It's just like, "Nope, figured out how to get round you." Wow. So. Maybe it's 'cause your body wants to go back to England. It's rejecting- the United States of America. It's like it's on English time. Right. I mean, regularly what I used to do was one night a week, I just would not sleep. I would just stay up all night. I'd get a hell of a lot done. Right. Everybody else would be asleep, and I would get, like, so much done. Um, and then I would just wait until I literally, like, couldn't stay awake anymore. Oh, wow. I was like that in my 20s. Now, if I don't get my eight hours, you don't wanna be anywhere near me. You really don't wanna be near me. All right. Well, I guess that's it for this after show, we will see you guys next week thank you for being a subscriber, and until next time, me divas. Nighty night. Bye.