Episode 32: Daisy De La O

Sarah leads this episode about a beautiful, talented, sweet, and creative young woman named Daisy, living in Compton. She was tragically murdered at just 19 years old.

All the evidence clearly pointed to her abusive, controlling ex-boyfriend, yet Daisy's murder case was basically ignored by authorities and the media. Although Daisy's identity was known, a local newspaper listed her as a 'Latina Jane Doe.'

Her friends and family took to social media, and thanks to their unwavering dedication to get Daisy justice, her killer was convicted after fleeing to another country.

You might not know this one, but you should. It is every bit as important as any other murder case you've already heard! 

Transcript

0:12

Hey true crime divas and dudes, I am Sarah. And I'm Tina, and thank you for joining us for this week's episode of your favorite true crime podcast, Deadly Divas. So we chose today's case after covering the Gabby Petito case, which brought up the issue of missing and murdered women of color not getting the same attention as cases like Gabby's. And we admire Gabby's family for bringing awareness to that, which is part of the focus of the Gabby Petito Foundation. And like y'all, we are true crime junkies, and while we of course enjoy sharing these cases on our podcast with you, we also believe it's important to use our platform to spread awareness about lesser-known cases. You know, those cases that did not get the attention that they should have from the authorities and the media. Exactly. So today we're going to share with you the story of Daisy de la O. Daisy de la O was a teenager of Latino descent living in Compton, a well-known high crime area, neighborhood of Los Angeles. She was vibrant, funny, smart, creative, kind, helpful. She loved to dye her hair vibrant colors and wear unique makeup styles. And as her mom Suzanna says, she wasn't the kind of girl that grew up playing with Barbies like her. She loved skateboards, camping, riding her bike around. Now, Daisy's parents divorced when she was in high school, and that really hit her hard, 'cause that's when they had to move to Compton. And she was really close with her dad. So they had been living in a three-bedroom house, and they moved to a small studio apartment due to finances, and they actually had to move in with the grandparents, Suzanna's parents. That's really hard on a child. Yeah. But when Daisy's mom was crying, feeling like a failure to her children, it was Daisy who was the one that said, "Hey, at least we're not on the street." Aw. So although Daisy was upset by the divorce, she knew her mom was doing the best she could, and she wanted to support her in any way she could. What a sweet girl. Now, in 2017, Daisy was just 15 years old, and she met a man named Victor Sosa on a dating app. He was 21, so Daisy actually kept his age a secret at first from her family. However, as soon as Suzanna met Victor, she saw that he had several tattoos and wondered how old he might be, 'cause he's obviously not 15 like Daisy. Hmm. It does not take long for Daisy's family and friends to notice that the relationship is not going smoothly. They witness controlling, verbally abusive, very jealous, and manipulative behavior by Victor towards Daisy. He's also somewhat reclusive. He lived alone, kept to himself, and these controlling behaviors just started to become worse and worse over time. He had a very explosive temper, and arguments between him and Daisy soon turned violent. Family members start to notice bruises, scratches, and even bite marks on Daisy. Oh my God. I know. I was like, what the...? What an absolute sicko. Yeah. Wow. So they notice these bruises, scratches, and bite marks on Daisy that look suspicious, but Daisy would never admit to any abuse. Now, Daisy's younger brother, Nathan, she had two brothers, but Nathan often hung out with her and Victor. All three of them would, like, do stuff together, hang out together, watch TV together. And although Daisy would deny that the bruises came from Victor, Nathan started to witness incidents of this violent behavior towards Daisy. There was one time when they were all watching TV together when Daisy and Victor got into a disagreement, and Nathan witnessed Victor starting to strangle Daisy, and he jumped in between them to defend his sister and get Victor to back off. And that was not the first time he'd had to do that. If he will strangle her in front of her brother- In her own home. This was in her home what is he doing behind closed doors when nobody's there? Yep. Wow. Just wait. He's a real piece of shit. Ugh. So Victor often accused Daisy of infidelity, which was the root of most of the arguments. Typical. Yeah. So another day, when her brother Nathan was watching them from the window of the apartment, he saw Victor smash his skateboard over Daisy's head in the middle of the street in broad daylight. But once Victor saw blood rushing down Daisy's face, he fled the scene. Now, Nathan was helpless to have done anything to stop it 'cause he was inside, but obviously he rushes outside to help his sister. Her head was split open and required stitches, and at that point, her mom, Susanna, realized that things were just way out of hand. Right. She insists that Daisy goes to the hospital and gets the stitches, and the nurses realize that this was an assault, and they call the police. Good. But when Daisy refuses to give a statement, there's nothing the police can do. Mm. So in cases like this, it happens all the time that the abused victim will not admit the abuse. It's a combination of loving the abuser, feeling that they can change the abuser, and it also comes with some shame that they got themselves into the situation in the first place. But unfortunately, nothing can be done to charge Victor with assault if Daisy does not press charges. So even though they interviewed Nathan, and he witnessed it- Mm-hmm they need her to press the charges. Right. But Susanna's not having any of that. Right. She does not give up. She wants protection for her daughter. Mm-hmm. So she goes to three different police stations to try and get a restraining order, and she's like, "Daisy is a minor. I am her parent. I should be able to do this." I love this because in so many of these cases, you have people, like family members, friends, whoever, who kind of just don't- They just accept even try to intervene. Right. They're like, "Well, what can I do?" And I do understand. Like, if she was gonna leave him, she would leave him, right? Like, what can I do? And, I mean, that's true, but also to see a mother, like, go above and beyond- Yeah is good. Mm-hmm. This whole family are freaking amazing. Mm-hmm. So she goes to the three different police stations, and she's like, "Hey, I wanna file the restraining order 'cause Daisy's still a minor. I'm her parent, so I should be able to do that and act on behalf of the minor." But they just keep telling her without Daisy making a statement, they can't issue one. That's so backwards. Right. Well, some of the police from one of the stations actually goes to Daisy's brother Nathan's school. So somebody at the police station was like, "We gotta do something about this." So kudos to them. They get a statement from him, and he tells them what he witnessed. Uh, this was really smart. Even though Daisy said that this was entrapment, this was really smart. So they go and get the statement from Nathan. He tells them exactly what he witnessed. Then they bring Daisy in for questioning, and she denies everything, but once they show her her brother Nathan's statement, she cannot bring herself to call her brother a liar. Hmm. And she breaks down and tells them everything. Hmm. She was so sweet, just so sweet. Very loving family, very close. Mm-hmm. But yeah, as much as she wanted to protect Victor, she was not gonna throw her brother under the bus and call him a liar- Yeah to the police as well, you know? Right. So Victor is then banned from going anywhere near her school, and Susannah then also takes the case to the property manager of their apartment complex and gets him banned from going to their apartment. Good. Like, this mom did not give up. Yeah. Like, she couldn't get a restraining order, but she got the school to ban him, the apartment to ban him. Now, unfortunately, this does not stop Daisy going to see him at first. But eventually, in January 2021, Daisy ends the relationship once and for all after four years with Victor. Wow. So she's now 19. She tells her mom, "I am done seeing what's-his-name." They, they either used what's-his-name or what's-his-face to refer to him. Because they hated his guts. Because Susannah just would not allow his name to be spoken. Mm-hmm. So Susannah thought she could tell it was different this time and that Daisy was serious about it. She's just elated that it's finally over. Daisy deletes all of her social media with him on it, blocks him from all her social media, which is a great sign to her family, but unfortunately, Victor also notices. Right. And he starts to realize that she's really leaving him this time. And you hear it all the time, because it's true. When you're leaving an abusive relationship, it is the most dangerous time. Dangerous time, yeah. It escalates, for sure. So by February, a month later, Daisy's on the path to rebuilding her life. She's now 19. She's attending the East Los Angeles College. She's studying for business administration, and she hopes to one day open up a permanent makeup studio. Love that, but it makes me so sad, because she had endured four years with this violent, abusive, controlling piece of garbage. Yeah. And she still went to school and was trying to make something of herself. I mean, she seems like an absolute sweetheart with all the best intentions. Yeah. On February 22nd, 2021, Daisy is at home with her family when she receives a text message from Victor saying he has something of hers to give her. Now, that concerns her mom, rightfully so. I mean, that's the oldest trick in the book, right? Right. But Daisy tells her, "Don't worry. I'm gonna go deal with this real quick, and I'll be right back." Don't ever go alone, you guys. Ladies, if you ever find yourself in a situation like this, you've just broken up with an abuser, don't go see him alone. I did once break up with an abuser, and I had to go get things from the apartment, my brother's 6'2", and I made him come with me. That was smart. Yeah. Good. Well, the next morning, Suzana wakes up to find that Daisy did not come home from the meeting with Victor, and her main concern is that they've got back together, and she's, like, super disappointed, but she just goes about her day. Wait, so they got back together? She thinks that. Okay. Daisy didn't come home. So Daisy goes off to meet him at his request, 'cause he has something to give her, and she says, "I'll be right back." And this was, like, 11:00 PM at night, so her mom goes to bed. But when she wakes up the next day and Daisy's not there, her mom's assumption is they got back together and she stayed the night with him. Okay. Okay. That's just her assumption. Right. She's, like, super disappointed, obviously. Mm-hmm. But she has to go to work, and she just goes about her day, goes to work. So once she gets to work, she soon receives a phone call from the police asking her if she knows where Daisy is. Uh-oh. That didn't worry her too much, but next they tell her they need to speak to Victor. And she says, upon hearing this, her heart dropped. The feelings of dread take over. She goes into her boss's office, breaks down in tears saying, "I know he did something to her." Oh my God. So her boss lets her leave, and a coworker drives her home. But as they pull up to the apartment complex, she sees several police cars and yellow crime scene tape. Now, they're stopping everybody going in, right, 'cause it's a crime scene. Mm-hmm. But a female police officer, as soon as she realizes that Suzanna is Daisy's mom, lets her through. Well, let the coworker come through with her, but it's like, "Yes, you can come through." Mm-hmm. The officer just hugs her. Oh my God. She can't say anything. She just hugs her. And out the corner of her eye, Suzanna sees a body bag, and she just knows that it's her Daisy. Her legs give way. She starts screaming at them, "Where is my baby? Where is my baby?" Yeah. And nobody will answer her. But Suzanna already knew where her baby was. The police allow her to see a picture of Daisy's face to identify her. They wouldn't let her see any more than the face. A picture. Or, or the, or the actual body. They show her a picture of literally just the face, not even the rest of the head, 'cause they need identification. So the body was in such rough shape that is that the implication? I don't know what to hear. Oh my God. She said it looked like Daisy was peacefully sleeping. Oh. So I'm glad that they did just show her that- Yeah if that's what it looked like. Although I'm sure she had to hear all the details in court. Yeah. So once she identifies Daisy, Suzanna pulls herself together, knowing that she has to be strong for the other family members. She now has to inform Daisy's brother, her parents, Daisy's grandparents, and Daisy's father. So the body had been found by the property manager in an alley, rolled up in a carpet next to a dumpster. Ugh. Yeah. Once police arrive, they see that she has a five-inch laceration on her neck, and a bloody knife, a kitchen knife, is laying beside the body. Wow, so he didn't even try to dispose of- He was a fucking lunatic of the weapon. I'm telling you. Wow. Now, a 13-year-old boy from the apartment complex comes forward and says that he saw someone dragging the body into the... He didn't know it was a body. He saw somebody dragging the carpet into the alley. Yeah. Obviously, it was the body. Um, so they pull the security footage. They see the same thing, but not well enough to identify anybody. It's really grainy like most of those are. Now Daisy's family have no doubt who did this. Daisy's grandfather even says he saw Victor hanging out around the apartment complex earlier, and they all tell police they know Victor has to be the one who did this. All signs point to Victor. But the police don't arrest him. It seems they're not even interested in pursuing the case, and in fact, Victor is not even brought in for questioning. Right. Although they do agree that he's a person of interest. But you don't even interview him? You don't even interview. So you interview the person that found the body, you interview the person that saw the body being dragged into the alley, you interview the grandfather that saw. You don't bring in the main suspect? Factually, he was the last one that they knew of to see her alive. See her alive. And they always interview that person, whether they're a suspect or not. So that makes no sense. Did not even bring him in to interview. Wow. Talk about drop the ball. Yeah. They want to wait for DNA test results to come back from the scene and the knife. But it takes time to get DNA results back. I watched a documentary, a podcast, and I actually read the case file, and they specifically say, like, on TV it looks like it comes back the same day, and in reality it takes weeks, especially in a high crime area like Compton, where there's so much crime. Right. So the police are saying, "We have to be sure that there's some evidence to back it up," before they can pull anyone in for questioning or charge them with a crime. So they wanna wait for these DNA test results. That is the most backwards thing I've ever heard. And also, did you watch Worst Neighbor Ever yet? Mm-hmm. So did you see the one, I think it happened in Compton, where they had a dispute with the neighbor and he ended up shooting him in broad daylight. Yes, Yes. And I think that was Compton, and I think it was kinda the same thing, where they had been begging- It was the, it was the dude that had been really kind and nice to him, right? Yes. It was JT, the teenager. The family had moved out, and he was still, like, living in the backyard. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I'm pretty sure that was also Compton, and it was the same kinda deal, where they had been begging the cops for help, and the cops were like, "Look, this is a high crime area. Like, we've got a lot going on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which still is not acceptable. It's not acceptable. Ugh. Anyway, sorry, continue. So the media give hardly any coverage to the case. One local newspaper gives it one paragraph and referred to Daisy as a Latino Jane Doe. How is she a Jane Doe when we know exactly who she is? It... In other words, she's of no significance, and that was the whole issue when it's Gabby Petito, she's on the front cover My blood is boiling Right. This is why I wanted to cover this one. This gives her and her murder no real identity, which means there's no community support either. No one would be invested not knowing the details or the identity of this poor young victim. I can't get over it. A Latino Jane Doe. Jane Doe. I'm speechless, y'all. Which as, like you said, as they know her name literally means a nobody. Wow. And it's disgusting. But yeah, you know how in all these stories the community pulls together, they go on the search Mm-hmm they da, da, da, da. There's no community support- Mm when you get one paragraph that says a Latino Jane Doe. Right. Now, if they'd have said a 19-year-old college student, you know, with her whole future ahead of her, posted one of those pictures of this adorable girl. Right. Everyone would be invested. Yeah. And that's the whole issue with this story. Ugh. The family are just devastated and disappointed in the lack of interest from the police and the media. Why is her face not on the front of every paper in an effort to basically catch a killer on the loose? I mean, even if they can't prove it's Victor, somebody murdered this girl in a horrific way, which means there is a killer out there. That should be a concern. Exactly. Everybody with any influence and authority so far has completely dropped the ball. Dropped the fucking ball. Yep. Now, three months later, there's no further progress been made, and Daisy's family and friends are starting to just get absolutely fucking livid. Right. Everyone seems to just be, like we said, dropping the ball In May 2021, remember she was murdered in February. Mm-hmm. So her best friend, Rebecca, who was inspired by the social media coverage that Gabby Petito got, and ultimately the fact that it, it helped solve Gabby's case, decides to use TikTok to spread the word and ask for help and tips. She makes a video named My Friend Daisy. Mm. And I haven't actually seen it, but I hear that it's like a happy picture of her at the fair, and then it fades out and into a picture of Victor. Mm. Like, it's very cleverly done. She lets social media know what happened, and that there have been no arrests made. She uses the hashtag JusticeForDaisy and the hashtag TikTokDoYourThing. Mm-hmm. She says, "Let's blow this thing up and find this asshole." And the crazy thing about it is, we don't even need help finding him. We know who he is and where he's at. Well, no, because- But nobody will do anything. Oh, did he run? He ran. Ah. Because the police took so damn long- Mm-hmm waiting to question him, by the time they agree that there's enough evidence to question him, nobody knows where he is. You don't need evidence to question somebody. Apparently they did. Wow. So the response to this post is just incredible. So then Daisy's cousin creates an Instagram and a Facebook account called Justice for Daisy. So now we've got mom fighting, cousin fighting, best friend fighting. She also shares the hashtags socialmedia doyourthing, tiktok doyourthing, instagram doyourthing, and justicefordaisy. And it gets shared and shared and shared. Some of the comments are just sympathy for the family, but some of the comments are reported sightings for Victor. Wow. Social media can be a truly incredible tool when you use it- Correctly correctly. Yeah. Indeed. Indeed. Yeah, 'cause at this point, nobody knows where Victor is. Mm. So he took off. I didn't know- Yeah that I, I think I had a line that I missed that said that when I was talking about the DNA and how it was gonna take them a while, that in the meantime he disappears. Okay. So yeah, I may have left that part out, but it definitely comes back up later 'cause his mom tells us stuff. Mm. So Susanna is just shocked at how many views and comments the video got, and at last it feels to her like her daughter's case is being seen. At last there is a community who cares about finding her daughter's murderer, no matter the color of the victim. Mm-hmm She was never a fan of social media before, but she said not only did it change the outcome of Daisy's case, it was a huge turning point in her life when social media got involved. Now, in June 2021, the DNA results finally come back- Wow from February. Wow. It is a match to Victor. Shocker. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Whose DNA was already in police database due to a previous arrest. I'm shocked. I'm shocked. Surprise, surprise again So police now put out a warrant for his arrest, but by now he's long gone. Mm. They even post Wanted posters with Victor's image saying he is wanted for murder and considered armed and dangerous. Now imagine if they had did that on day one. Right. In July 2021, Daisy's cousin receives an Instagram message that shows a video of a man they suspect is Victor, and they send it to Suzanna to confirm that it is indeed him. He is just sat in a bar, drinking and smoking, hanging out without a care in the world in Mexico. Of course, he fled to Mexico. That's the picture I showed you. Oh, okay. Yeah, literally not a care in the world, just living it up while he's left this- He was watching all of that while he's left this absolute destruction. Wow. He even had a very distinctive hairstyle at the time, half bleached and half dark. It was actually like a skunk. It was bleached down the middle. Gross. Okay. So, like, he wasn't even hiding from anything. He's not trying to be inconspicuous. He probably thinks, "I'm in Mexico," and- I'm good now yeah I got away with that. Oh, so Suzanna confirms, yes, that's Victor, and they turn the video over to law enforcement, so they now have his new appearance and exact location. Well, the police turn around and say, "Well, we already had that information." W- w- which seemed unlikely, as no action had been taken, and the day after they turn the video over to the police, Mexican authorities find Victor at the same bar the next day and arrest him and extradite him to Los Angeles, where he is charged with murder. Way to go, Mexican authorities. Thank you. Right. The, the dude just goes back to the same bar every day, and I mean, he's not even hiding. Wow. Victor, of course, pleads not guilty, so of course it goes to trial. And the defense have no other argument other than they say there's not enough evidence, which is a joke. Ridiculous. The prosecution, however, actually have a ton of evidence. Daisy's grandfather testifies that on February 22nd, 2021, about 10 minutes before Daisy left the apartment to go meet Victor, he witnessed Victor peering through their window wearing a mask, a cap, and a beanie. Oh. He later also heard Daisy's voice and that of a male voice talking outside the window, but he couldn't make out what they were saying. Mm-hmm. Another teenage witness testifies that he would often see Daisy and Victor hanging out by the apartments. And around 11:30 PM on February 22nd, he was returning home from his cousin's house when he saw Daisy laying on the ground near the stairs to the building, and Victor was also there, walking back and forth with his head hung And he could not tell if Daisy was awake or asleep. She wasn't making any noise. So trying to mind his own business, he continued on home, and about an hour later, heard a weird dragging noise outside This was a teenager, a teenage witness? Yeah, he wa- he was only 14. Okay. Otherwise, adult you would hope would intervene, make sure she was okay, or have called the police and been like, "Hey, something weird's going on." This is a 14-year-old boy. He didn't know any better. I get that, and he was probably scared. But just, you know, for anybody who may be listening to this who's younger, and even parents, like, tell your kids, if you see something- If you see something, say something always, no matter what Always, always tell somebody They also had matching DNA evidence on the carpet and the knife, and the fact that Victor fled to Mexico and changed his appearance. Plus of course, all the previous documented abuse and violence reports towards Daisy. Yeah. But most damning of all was his own mother's testimony against him. Mm. After Victor went out on February 22nd, he did not come home, and on the 25th, she filed a missing persons report on him. Two weeks later, she heard about Daisy's death, and she receives a phone call from Victor asking to meet her out on the street. So he won't come to the house. Hmm. Probably knows they're looking for him. Yeah. Or he thinks they were. They weren't, actually. Right. At the meeting, she confronted Victor and asked him if he had killed Daisy. He says nothing, but just bows his head. Mm. To which she told him, "You need to do the right thing and turn yourself in." Wow. He asked her for some money to take care of some stuff first, and she gave him $500 and he never came back. I'm shocked. Right. No, like, and, and good for his mom for trying to, like, give him advice. Go turn yourself in. But like, come on, don't give him money. Ugh. Yeah, I mean, obviously that was a big mistake. I mean, it's her son, and if he's, like, practically admitting that he did it and said, "Yes, okay, I'll go turn myself in. Could I just take care of some stuff first?" Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, I can kinda see how she was manipulated into that. Yeah. But at the same time, you're thinking, what? My paranoia would tell me exactly what he was gonna do, and I... no. I think I- The answer is no I probably would've said, "Hey, let's go to the police station and turn you in now, and you tell me what needs to be taken care of, and I'll take care of it." Or let me go with you. Yeah. You know? So the injuries found on Daisy were also presented to the jury. Daisy had suffered multiple sharp force type injuries to the right side of her head and neck. She had bruising on her upper arms, the fatal five-inch wound on her neck, as well as 58 shallow wounds to the head of various different angles and size. Wow. So I mean, the brutality. Crime of passion, quite obviously. Ugh. And this is why I'm glad they only let mom see the face. Yeah. The jury find Victor Sosa guilty of first-degree murder, and he is sentenced to 25 years to life. Susanna and the rest of Daisy's family and friends finally have justice for their beloved Daisy. Now, Victor's legal team try to get a retrial due to the fact that the kit used to obtain DNA at the scene is referred to as a sexual assault kit in the trial, e- even though a sexual crime is not suspected. But as Daisy was found with her pants pulled down and her sweatshirt pulled up over her head, it just happened to be the type of kit they used to collect the evidence. That's bullshit. No retrial. They're saying- I hope they didn't give him a retrial th- uh, they're trying to say it gives the wrong connotation. He- there wasn't a sexual crime. Right. Yeah, the appeal is thrown out. Good. So Los Angeles police now also utilize social media to help find wanted criminals. Mm. And that is the sad story of sweet Daisy Marisol dela O, who never made it to 20 years old. God, that was a heart-wrenching case, and I feel so bad for her mother and her family. For that crime to have been as brutal as it was, for her to have been as young as she was, and for there to be, like, a murderer on the loose, I just can't believe that it was so overlooked by everybody. Yeah. What really gets me is that she had left, and she was getting her life together and building a future, and he just snuffed it out. Yep. I hate that. I hate him And it seems like he was loitering around the apartment. When he called her to say, "Hey, meet me somewhere," he was ready to pounce on her as soon as she walked out the door, which means that he headed there with a kitchen knife. Possibly even the carpet as well. Like, it's- So 100% premediated pre- premeditated, 100%, yeah. It wasn't an argument that got out of hand, in my opinion. I agree. I agree with that. We don't know what happened, but it seems like he was already there hanging out before she even got the call. Wow. And he wouldn't have had a meeting with her in a third place and then taken her body to the apartment. I mean, it makes no sense. And he didn't just happen to find a kitchen knife lying around outside the apartment. Like, it, all of it has to be so premeditated. Right. Right. I'm just glad they found him and got him back and got him taken care of. I am too. And, like, the audacity of him to just be a regular at this bar, knowing that he's on the run for murder. I mean, obviously he felt like he was untouchable. Thankfully, the Mexican authorities let him know that he was very much not untouchable. Yeah. All right, let's save anything else for the after show, 'cause I wanna get into the, the police, like, claim they already knew and stuff, but- Okay but yeah, we need to talk more about it in the after show. But yeah, that is the story of poor Daisy. And when I do post the TikTok, um, you guys need to go look at the pictures of this girl, because she just looked so vibrant, didn't she? Very vibrant, just a precious little girl. I mean, I know she was 19, but I mean, that's a baby. Mm-hmm. Yeah, still a teenager. All right, guys, um, join us in the after show if you're a subscriber. If not, tune in next week for... Shanquella Robinson, another case where... I mean, thankfully Daisy got justice, and rest in peace, Daisy. But Shanquella Robinson has never received justice, and there is a video of what happened to- Don't tell me any more- Okay 'cause we're about to record it, and I don't know the story, and I wanna hear it. Okay. Okay. All right? So subscribers, we'll see you in the after show. Everybody else, we'll see you next week with Shanquella Robinson, and until then... Adios. Not dimly. Bye, guys.